David Raymond Amos@DavidRayAmos Replying to @DavidRayAmos@alllibertynews and 49 others Methinks truly comical after the writ is dropped to see 2 of my evil political foes Johnny Hortonand Marguerite Deschamps debate each other within CBC while referring to my work and words N'esy Pas?
The Risteen building was built in the 1820s and was the first cut stone building in New Brunswick. In the 1870s it became the Risteen Sash and Door Factory. (Provincial Archives)
The Risteen building in downtown Fredericton will not be given a heritage designation and may soon be demolished.
City council voted down a motion to designate the building 5-4 at Monday night's council meeting. One councillor was absent and two were not involved in the initial vote.
"I'm shocked and I'm disappointed with my council colleagues," said Coun. Kate Rogers, who voted in favour of the motion. "I think it's very short-sighted."
The Risteen building, at the corner of Queen and Smythe streets, was built in the 1820s and was the first cut stone building in New Brunswick. In the 1870s it became the Risteen Sash and Door Factory. The fate of the historic building has been in question for months.
Developer Gabriel El-Zayat owns the adjacent properties, which have already been demolished, and plans to build an apartment complex on the site. He applied for a demolition permit for the Risteen building in April. That's when the city issued a stop-work order to consider whether it should come under the Heritage Preservation Bylaw.
The surrounding buildings have already been demolished but a stop work order was issued for the Risteen building in April, until its heritage value could be assessed. (Mike Heenan/CBC)
Several councillors said they struggled with the decision at Monday night's meeting.
"In this matter it's important to me that we make the right decision for the city and especially the right decision for taxpayers," said Coun. Stephen Chase. "It's not an easy decision."
Chase said it was concerning to designate the property after it had been purchased by the developer. "I think it sends a strong negative message to anyone who owns a potential heritage property that they could be subjected to the same treatment," he said.
The historic Risteen House is at risk of being torn down to accommodate an apartment complex. (Mike Heenan/CBC)
Council deferred the decision several times to give the developer time to incorporate the building into the new development.
According to a letter sent to the city from El-Zayat, the cost to preserve the stone façade in the new development was estimated at $685,000.
El-Zayat declined to comment but did tell reporters as he left the council chambers that "they definitely made the right decision."
Ken Forrest, the city's director of planning and development, said the stop-work order on the demolition of the building will now be lifted.
"The property owner owns the structure," Forrest said. "They have the right to demolish unless there is some bylaw that prevents its demolition. In this case there's nothing preventing it, so it is the right of the developer to make that application and for him to receive the permit."
Forrest said the demolition permit can take anywhere from a few days to a couple of weeks to be granted.
"Chase said it was concerning to designate the property after it had been purchased by the developer." Exactly.
Samual Johnston
Reply to @Aaron James: yet all property that gets designated has that happen after someone has bought it. Maybe not in this time frame but still designating private property as historic happens
Pete Prosser
If you nominate and elect young councilors who could care less about history, then all of the history is subject to demolition. Small town wants new things , but someday someone will question the logic of trashing what had been saved for so long in the game and those who decided so.
Al Clark
Reply to @pete prosser: couldn't
Harold Wood
Reply to @pete prosser: Seems especially if it is English history being erased.
Emilien Forest
Reply to @pete prosser: Some council members wanted to keep a building which was falling apart at the seams but were more than willing to chip away at Officer's Square. Not a whole lot of intelligence sitting at these meetings.
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Emilien Forest:
The difference is officers square is public land, the building if preserved would be the responsibility of an individual or a group and only cost the city some property tax.
Graham McCormack
Reply to @Emilien Forest: When do you plan to run for council?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Graham McCormack: should everyone who posts an opinion here plan to run for council?
Graham McCormack
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: If all you do is complain then yes.
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Graham McCormack: I look for2ard to seeing your name on the ballot in the spring,
Graham McCormack
Reply to @Johnny Horton: I'm not complaining.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Graham McCormack: then most who posts here should plan to run for political office.
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Methonks we all need to run forever and lose forever nesy pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Johnny Horton: my point is; do not rely on the government or anybody else to make it for you. You must ake the initiative.
McKenzie King
About time one council made a sensible decision about buildings.
Johnny Horton
Reply to @McKenzie King: It’s not about the building, it’s about more property taxes, to build outdoor rinks and give themselves raises.
Terrance Thomasen
Progress stops for no one. Happy that council is looking forward and improving Fredericton
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Terrance Thomasen:
How does some $2k a month condo improve Fredericton?
Q
Johnny Horton
The “keep the building” faction should have found a French or indigenous connection to the cut stone.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Johnny Horton: I'm on your side for saving this building, but you I have to admit that you are trying hard to make me change my mind.
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: You are saying it ain’t so? Really? You aren’t that naive.
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Actually I agree with chase it’s too late to save the building, council failed on this issue by not doing their due diligence and having buildings thst should be preserved designated so. Which will happen again within a year with yet another building because they still won’t do their job and have things done first.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Johnny Horton: then how about you do something about it? Purchase the building and have a fundraising to save it as les acadiens did with la cathédrale l'Assomption in Moncton? The governments did not give a cent on it as they did for the Irish Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception in Saint John.
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Someone probably would have bought the building had they known it’s fate.
These mass area land deals like in this case. Isn’t done usually on the open market. A developer approaches the land owners, they don’t sit and wait for the neighbouring lot to become on the market,
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Johnny Horton: when there's a will, there's a way. La cathédrale l'Assomption would have been torn down long ago if les acadiens had relied on the government.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Johnny Horton: as opposed to you, I have facts to back my assertions up unlike you with oneliners such as "You are saying it ain’t so? Really? You aren’t that naive". It is so! I just gave you the cathedral example.
Graham McCormack
Reply to @Johnny Horton: The building was for sale for years.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Graham McCormack: ir was? Then Johnny had ample opportunity to buy it and start a fundraising to preserve it. As the saying goes: "Coulda, woulda, shoulda".
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Graham McCormack: Honestly, I don’t think anyone really knew the history of the building, it was never talked about in downtown Fredericton on the streets,q
That’s a failure of past councils to help preserve our history through education and publicity,
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: I’m not sure why you’re insist I buy the building. I’ve never said it should be saved...
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Johnny Horton: for one who claims that he never said that the building should be saved, you sure have a lot to say about the council making the decision to let it be demolished.
Johnny Horton
I wonder how many on council even knew almost the whole city burnt down in 1825 and this was one of the few buildings to survive.
Murray Brown
Not sure who's running against the current mayor and councilors in the next municipal election, but hopefully they win.
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Murray Brown: Sadly even if they lose, the damage is already done, the new council will be committed to the disasters of an outdoor oval st officers square and the $9m price tag, if they want it or not,
Murray Brown
Reply to @Johnny Horton: ... That job and the skateboard park can be cancelled... Just ask Higgs... He's cancelled plenty of projects throughout the province. New justice complex in progress? Cancelled!... New school? Cancelled!... New highway on route 11 already in progress... Cancelled! If a new mayor and council says NO, then the city staff must comply. They don't have a say.
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Murray Brown:
Hard to cancel an already chopped down tree.
Mac Isaac
For all those who think this vote is ridiculous, shortsighted, etc. I suggest that the voters work to "un-elect" every last one of them...including the mayor! I know there will be many who think this is either a good idea (to not give the Risteen heritage designation) or it doesn't really matter, this is simply another "no biggee" issue while to those many who would have liked to see the Risteen preserved it's a major BIGGEE!! If the people of Fredericton want to take back control of their city, it's high time they started to work together to do that...otherwise it will just be outside developers coming in and scrubbing Fredericton's history. For me, I support some development (even by outside developers) but not at the expense of some of the reasons many of us moved here to begin with. I emphatically don't want to see a return to the do-nothing days of Bill Walker et al, but I also don't relish the idea of sweeping aside all vestiges of Fredericton's past.
Tim Biddiscombe:
Reply to @Mac Isaac: We actually sweep aside few vestiges.
Jim Cyr
So the "newcomers" to New Brunswick come to town, buy the 200 year old buildings and tear them down. Council says fine. Fredericton truly has zero pride of culture any longer. It just worships dollars. Sad. Well, I will be boycotting Fredericton from now on.........no more dollars from me! Heritage = tourism = dollars. Guess the councilors who voted in the majority are too dumb to realize this.
Graham McCormack
Reply to @Jim Cyr: Do you know the owner of this building?
Tim Biddiscombe:
Reply to @Jim Cyr: Gabe has been a tax paying citizen of Fredericton for many years. He invests in our community . Don't think the city will notice your boycott. Fredericton has plenty of enviable heritage ..that place is quite an ugly building actually.
Archie Levesque
Reply to @Tim Biddiscombe: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Tim Biddiscombe:
So? Is that what society and life has become? The bigger the investor the better? I sit really sll just about who pays the most taxes. Like that gallant guy in Moncton calling up councillors because a tenant of his in trouble over a patio, flashing his money and importance to the city around,
We are better than that. Or st least should be,
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Jim Cyr: Don’t eorry Jim, apparently the can’t read and miss nuance eith your quotes around newcomers.
Jim Cyr
Reply to @Johnny Horton: The future!! Progress!! To heck with our past, who we were, and who we are. There are people from all over the world who should run New Brunswick. Who are WE to say that they can't??
Bob Smith If the building was designated historical BEFORE the developer bought it, there wouldn't be an issue. However, if the city moved to designate the building after acquisition and didn't want to pay the renovation, the developer could sue the city for seven figures easily.
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Bob Smith:
Then I guess council should have done their job BEFORE it got to this point,
Jonas Smith God I'd give anything to have Woodside back.
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Jonas Smith:
Nah he’s the one that bred this whole lot.
Greg Windsor Gee Fredericton, seems history and heritage mean nothing to you at all ... just remember, once it is gone that is it, no turning back. I hope those on Heritage start thinking twice about what they are doing....
