https://twitter.com/DavidRayAmos/with_replies
David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
Replying to @DavidRayAmos@Kathryn98967631 and 47 others
Methinks folks should study all the files within the recent EUB Hearings about NB Power They are matters 430, 375 and 357 N'esy Pas?
https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2019/05/science-behind-nb-powers-hydrogen.html
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-power-gaetan-thomas-1.5131620
Science behind NB Power's hydrogen venture too good to be true, critic says
86 Comments
Wally Manza
Why do I not have any confidence in Gaeten Thomas nor believe much what he says?
Marguerite Deschamps
Bernard McIntyre
And this statement he believes this prosses work from the experiments, coming from the person who believes electric cars has no maintenance to be preformed on them. No wonder N.B Power is in such a mess. Has he never heard of the Bricklin. Why would these people come to N.B power, well I just said it.
Marc LeBlanc
Reply to @Bernard McIntyre: You nailed it when you said "why would they come here?
For the same reason Bricklin did.
For the same reason Bricklin did.
BruceJack Speculator
Reply to @Bernard McIntyre: And there was "orimulsion" . . . spending millions to change a generating plant without a contract to provide the special fuel. There also used to be a scam called "electricity amplification" from I believe Australia . . . they never provided a working example either but promised more energy out than in. Embarrassing and expensive for all of us.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @BruceJack Speculator: the orimulsion was the works of the CONservatives under Bernard Lord.
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: YUP
Dianne MacPherson
Why all the skepticism?
Many ratepayers don't think highly of Mr. Thomas
as we tend to blame him for everything wrong that
happens in that taxpayer-funded Company.
Give him the benefit of the doubt and hope
that the Govt. is keeping on top of this endeavor !!!
David R. Amos
Reply to @Dianne MacPherson: Yea Right
Larry Larson
P.T. Barnum was so right!
David R. Amos
Reply to @Larry Larson: YUP
Daryl Doucette
Another Atcon type deal...lots of our tax dollars mysteriously disappear.....into some ones back pocket.
David R. Amos
Reply to @daryl doucette: YUP
Brian Robertson
This has a definite Bricklyn feel about it.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Brian Robertson: If it looks like a duck walks like a duck etc etc
Ian Scott
"If it does not work NB will not be repaid" , that is because the money has gone to its board of directors?
Debi Mcdonald
Reply to @Ian Scott: Would be interesting to see who/whom are on that very board.
Ian Scott
Reply to @debi mcdonald: Well one of them is Gaetan Thomas.
David R. Amos
Reply to @debi mcdonald: A few Yankees
Murray Brown
Ok... So it is too good to be true, but they watched some magical stuff and they said... Hey..... Here's millions and there's plenty more where that came from because we're NB Power and we have plenty of money to throw away. Just look at our fleet of electric cars that cost more money to operate and maintain than our regular fleet of cars. Or check out that deal with Venezuela that cost us tons of money. We never run out of money.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Murray Brown: it's a well known fact that electric vehicles are much cheaper to maintain than those wirh internal combustion engines. Electric motors are simple with hardly no moving parts. The whole car has less moving parts and needs little maintenance.
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Nope
Marguerite Deschamps
Just a minute. No one is disputing that you cannot violate one of the fundamental laws of thermodynamics: that in a closed system, energy can only be transformed, not created or destroyed.
As with combustibles, the energy is already stored in the fuel. All you need is a spark to get the fire going. The hydrogen is stored in sea water. Who knows if this technology is not able to release it? If we had listened to the naysayers, we would still be travelling by horse and buggy.
Like the blacksmiths before, the fossil fuel proponents will have none of it like the CONservatives who cater to them.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Methinks everybody knows how to have fun with sodium hydride N'esy Pas?
Fred Brewer
What is next? NB Power investing in cold fusion? This whole scheme smacks of smoke and mirrors and in the end the ratepayers have no choice but to fund it. The EUB needs to shut this whole project down immediately.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Fred Brewer: would you rather support fracking while the US is awash in natural gas?
David R. Amos
Reply to @Fred Brewer: Check out their plan to sell mini nukes
David R. Amos
Golly Gosh Batman CBC has just revealed one of the many reasons the EUB has barred me
---------- Original message ----------
From: "Carr, Jeff Hon. (ELG/EGL)"<Jeff.Carr@gnb.ca>
Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 10:01:18 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: Golly Gosh Batman CBC has just revealed one
of the many reasons the EUB has barred me
To: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.
Thank you for your email. Your thoughts, comments and input are greatly valued.
You can be assured that all emails and letters are carefully read,
reviewed and taken into consideration. There may be occasions when,
given the issues you have raised and the need to address them
effectively, we will forward a copy of your correspondence to the
appropriate government official. Accordingly, a response may take
several business days. If your issue is Constituency related, please
contact Roseann at my Constituency office in Fredericton Junction at
roseann.smith@gnb.ca or 368-2938. Thanks again for your email. ______
Merci pour votre courriel. Nous vous sommes très reconnaissants de
nous avoir fait part de vos idées, commentaires et observations. Nous
tenons à vous assurer que nous lisons attentivement et prenons en
considération tous les courriels et lettres que nous recevons. Dans
certains cas, nous transmettrons votre message au ministère
responsable afin que les questions soulevées puissent être traitées de
la manière la plus efficace possible. En conséquence, plusieurs jours
ouvrables pourraient s’écouler avant que nous puissions vous répondre.
Si votre courriel est lié à une issue de circonscription, veuillez
contacter Roseann à mon bureau de circonscription à Fredericton
Junction à roseann.smith@gnb.ca ou 368-2938. Merci encore pour votre
courriel.
---------- Original message ----------
From: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.
Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 12:53:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Golly Gosh Batman CBC has just revealed one of the many
reasons the EUB has barred me
To: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com>, Jacques.Poitras@cbc.ca,
Robert.Jones@cbc.ca, David.Akin@globalnews.ca,
Newsroom@globeandmail.com, steve.murphy@ctv.ca, gthomas@nbpower.com,
jfurey@nbpower.com, bplummer@nbpower.com, Marc.Belliveau@gnb.ca
Cc: Dominic.Cardy@gnb.ca, tj@burkelaw.ca, kelly@lamrockslaw.com,
mike.holland@gnb.ca, robert.mckee@gnb.ca, robert.gauvin@gnb.ca,
kris.austin@gnb.ca, rick.desaulniers@gnb.ca, michelle.conroy@gnb.ca,
David.Coon@gnb.ca, Kevin.A.Arseneau@gnb.ca, megan.mitton@gnb.ca,
blaine.higgs@gnb.ca, brian.gallant@gnb.ca, denis.landry2@gnb.ca,
greg.byrne@gnb.ca, Jack.Keir@gnb.ca, jeff.carr@gnb.ca,
hugh.flemming@gnb.ca, pm@pm.gc.ca, Katie.Telford@pmo-cpm.gc.ca,
andre@jafaust.com, oldmaison@yahoo.com, andrew.scheer@parl.gc.ca,
maxime.bernier@parl.gc.ca, leader@greenparty.ca,
elizabeth.may@parl.gc.ca
https://www.cbc.ca/news/
Science behind NB Power's hydrogen venture too good to be true, critic says
Social Sharing
Clean-energy company says its 'major' technology has to stay secret for now
Jacques Poitras, Karissa Donkin · CBC News · Posted: May 13, 2019 6:00 AM AT
78 Comments
Wally Manza
Why do I not have any confidence in Gaeten Thomas nor believe much what he says?
David Amos
Awaiting moderation
Reply to @Wally Manza: Methinks folks should study all the files
within the recent EUB Hearings about NB Power they are matters 430,
375 and 357 N'esy Pas?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Wally Manza: I could tell you why just like many posters on
here. But it will not get published, I'm afraid.
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Surprise Surprise Surprise
On 5/13/19, David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/
>
> Science behind NB Power's hydrogen venture too good to be true, critic says
>
> Clean-energy company says its 'major' technology has to stay secret for now
> Jacques Poitras, Karissa Donkin · CBC News · Posted: May 13, 2019 6:00 AM
> AT
>
>
> https://www.nuclearsafety.gc.
>
> ---------- Original message ----------
> From: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com>
> Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 12:41:05 -0400
> Subject: YO Mikey Holland Methinks my little speech and the EUB
> hearing last night has had an effect N'esy Pas?
> To: "Dominic.Cardy"<Dominic.Cardy@gnb.ca>, tj <tj@burkelaw.ca>, kelly
> <kelly@lamrockslaw.com>, "Holland, Mike (LEG)"<mike.holland@gnb.ca>,
> "robert.mckee"<robert.mckee@gnb.ca>, "robert.gauvin"
> <robert.gauvin@gnb.ca>, "kris.austin"<kris.austin@gnb.ca>,
> "rick.desaulniers"<rick.desaulniers@gnb.ca>, "michelle.conroy"
> <michelle.conroy@gnb.ca>, "David.Coon"<David.Coon@gnb.ca>, "Arseneau,
> Kevin (LEG)"<Kevin.A.Arseneau@gnb.ca>, "Mitton, Megan (LEG)"
> <megan.mitton@gnb.ca>, "blaine.higgs"<blaine.higgs@gnb.ca>,
> "brian.gallant"<brian.gallant@gnb.ca>, "denis.landry2"
> <denis.landry2@gnb.ca>, "greg.byrne"<greg.byrne@gnb.ca>, "Jack.Keir"
> <Jack.Keir@gnb.ca>, "jeff.carr"<jeff.carr@gnb.ca>, "hugh.flemming"
> <hugh.flemming@gnb.ca>
> Cc: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.
> "Katie.Telford"<Katie.Telford@pmo-cpm.gc.ca>, andre
> <andre@jafaust.com>, oldmaison <oldmaison@yahoo.com>, "andrew.scheer"
> <andrew.scheer@parl.gc.ca>, "maxime.bernier"
> <maxime.bernier@parl.gc.ca>, leader <leader@greenparty.ca>,
> "elizabeth.may"<elizabeth.may@parl.gc.ca>
>
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/
>
> Jimmy Moore
> Reply to @: David Amos isn't qualified to fix anything in my opinion,
> he isn't even allowed at most hearing and all his legal challenges
> have amounted to nothing but a waste of taxpayer money
>
> David R. Amos
> Reply to @Jimmy Moore: Is that your real name?
>
> On 5/10/19, David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com> wrote:
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: "Holland, Mike Hon. (ERD/DER)"<Mike.Holland@gnb.ca>
>> Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 13:00:08 +0000
>> Subject: Automatic reply: YO Dominic Cardy are your ears burning today?
>> To: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com>
>>
>> Thank you for your email. Your thoughts, comments and input are
>> greatly valued. You can be assured that all emails and letters are
>> carefully read, reviewed and taken into consideration.
>>
>> If your issue is Constituency related, please contact Cheryl Layton at
>> my constituency office in Albert at (506) 856-4961 or
>> Cheryl.Layton@gnb.ca.
>>
>> Thanks again for your email!
>> Mike Holland
>> Minister
>> MLA, Albert
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Merci pour votre courriel. Nous vous sommes très reconnaissants de
>> nous avoir fait part de vos idées, commentaires et observations. Nous
>> tenons à vous assurer que nous lisons attentivement et prenons en
>> considération tous les courriels et lettres que nous recevons.
>>
>> Si votre courriel est lié à un enjeu de circonscription, veuillez
>> contacter Cheryl Layton à mon bureau de circonscription dans Albert au
>> (506) 856-4961 ou Cheryl.Layton@gnb.ca.
>>
>> Merci encore pour votre courriel!
>> Mike Holland
>> Ministre
>> Député, Albert
>>
>>
>> https://www.cbc.ca/news/
>>
>> French immersion entry point remains at Grade 1 — for now
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Aaron Allison
>> My Little Girls school does not have French Immersion. Time to hold a
>> Referendum on Bilingualism.
>>
>> 23 hours ago
>>
>> Reply to @Aaron Allison: yes, lets get rid of it
>>
>> 21 hours ago
>>
>> Reply to @Aaron Allison: Maybe you should do like every has too when a
>> school is not available for their kids they move where there is one.
>>
>> 19 hours ago
>>
>> Reply to @Joseph Vachier: you cannot. It's enshrined in the Constitution.
>>
>> 16 hours ago
>>
>> Reply to @Aaron Allison: the French extremists that wrote the
>> "Official Languages Act" of New Brunswick " back in the day" made sure
>> that " bilingualism" would be exempt from any " referendum" issues in
>> the future. In other words, we cannot have a referendum on
>> bilingualism, unless we open the constitution of Canada , which will
>> not happen because Quebec would have to agree to it. they got us good
>> folks!
>>
>> 13 hours ago
>>
>> Reply to @daryl doucette:
>> Vendue!
>>
>> 13 hours ago
>>
>> Reply to @daryl doucette: No they don't. Amos says NB doesn't have a
>> constipation.
>>
>> 25 minutes ago
>>
>> Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Good word..."enshrined"...dug in like
>> an Alabama tick....
>>
>> 24 minutes ago
>>
>> Reply to @Shawn McShane: you have a point there....I forget but yeah
>> maybe Quebec did not sign it in '82....some one please clarify
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: "Carr, Jeff Hon. (ELG/EGL)"<Jeff.Carr@gnb.ca>
>> Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 13:00:08 +0000
>> Subject: Automatic reply: YO Dominic Cardy are your ears burning today?
>> To: David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com>
>>
>> Thank you for your email. Your thoughts, comments and input are greatly
>> valued.
>>
>> You can be assured that all emails and letters are carefully read,
>> reviewed and taken into consideration. There may be occasions when,
>> given the issues you have raised and the need to address them
>> effectively, we will forward a copy of your correspondence to the
>> appropriate government official. Accordingly, a response may take
>> several business days. If your issue is Constituency related, please
>> contact Roseann at my Constituency office in Fredericton Junction at
>> roseann.smith@gnb.ca or 368-2938. Thanks again for your email. ______
>> Merci pour votre courriel. Nous vous sommes très reconnaissants de
>> nous avoir fait part de vos idées, commentaires et observations. Nous
>> tenons à vous assurer que nous lisons attentivement et prenons en
>> considération tous les courriels et lettres que nous recevons. Dans
>> certains cas, nous transmettrons votre message au ministère
>> responsable afin que les questions soulevées puissent être traitées de
>> la manière la plus efficace possible. En conséquence, plusieurs jours
>> ouvrables pourraient s’écouler avant que nous puissions vous répondre.
>> Si votre courriel est lié à une issue de circonscription, veuillez
>> contacter Roseann à mon bureau de circonscription à Fredericton
>> Junction à roseann.smith@gnb.ca ou 368-2938. Merci encore pour votre
>> courriel.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/10/19, David Amos <motomaniac333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> https://www.cbc.ca/news/
>>>
>>> French immersion entry point remains at Grade 1 — for now
>>>
>>>
>>> Marguerite Deschamps
>>> Come on Anglophones; you've smarter than that! Learn another language,
>>> it's good for the mind!
>>>
>>> 18 hours ago
>>>
>>> Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps:
>>> The problem is not learning another language but when we live in North
>>> America it is nearly impossible to retain and use what we learn.
>>>
>>> 17 hours ago
>>>
>>> Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Might try learning Mi'kmaq, they may
>>> be the overlords over all of South East NB, Shediac, Moncton,
>>> Dieppe...
>>>
>>> 16 hours ago
>>>
>>> Reply to @Shawn McShane:
>>> And so they should...........
>>>
>>> 16 hours ago
>>>
>>> Reply to @Dan Lee: When they went to war with other tribes over
>>> territory what happened? When they sided with one group over the
>>> other, when they fought with the French over the British and then the
>>> British over the French and then the Americans and then the British
>>> again when the British were winning over the Americans...how is it so
>>> they should? If the Americans won? If the French won?
>>>
>>> 16 hours ago
>>>
>>> Reply to @Shawn McShane:
>>> Read of most treaties......British would speak the treaty and write on
>>> paper differantly......i have a portrait of an old map which shows
>>> here native land was......
>>>
>>> 16 hours ago
>>>
>>> Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: ok marguerite...go learn Chinese. Be
>>> good for your mind.
>>>
>>> 16 hours ago
>>>
>>> Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps:
>>>
>>> Yes, and Mandarin Chinese should be anyone's first choice for a second
>>> language.
>>>
>>> 15 hours ago
>>>
>>> Reply to @Dan Lee: To be brutal honest with you I don't disagree with
>>> the message, I disagree with the method. It should be all Canadians
>>> together. What we have is Divide and Conquer method by the Government
>>> of Canada ™️
>>>
>>> 12 hours ago
>>>
>>> Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: "it's good for the mind!"
>>>
>>> Methinks not if we wind up thinking like you N'esy Pas?
>>>
>>> 12 hours ago
>>>
>>> Reply to @Mark (Junkman) George: Methinks Chiac should be a Proud
>>> Maritimer's first choice N'esy Pas?
>>>
>>> 11 hours ago
>>>
>>> Reply to @Mario Doucet: nearly impossible ??? That is hard to process
>>> .... i suppose if people are a little enthusiastic about life they can
>>> learn and retain pretty much anything.
>>>
>>> 10 hours ago
>>>
>>> Reply to @Shawn McShane: coulda, woulda, mighta, shoulda ...
>>>
>>> 10 hours ago
>>>
>>> Reply to @daryl doucette: does civility count as a subject in school?
>>> I’m sure there are people who could benefit from a little training on
>>> that subject. I wonder about natural aptitude though and how the lack
>>> thereof could prove to be a real hindrance.
>>>
>>> 10 hours ago
>>>
>>> Reply to @David R. Amos: minds are unfortunately a necessity that
>>> isn’t available to all. Lol
>>>
>>> Just now
>>>
>>> Reply to @Josef Blow: I should ask when are you slated to get a mind
>>> with a conscience or at least some semblance of ethics? FYI I studied
>>> French and Latin in my High School years in Fat Fred City before the
>>> turncoat Minister Cardy and quite likely you were born. Furthermore
>>> some of my classmates are seated Judges now and hate it when we cross
>>> paths. Perhaps folks who truly care about democracy and justice should
>>> study the Federal Court File No T-1557-15 to understand why French has
>>> become irrelevant in Canada. Methinks if the British is Queen going to
>>> bar a man from public properties and public Inquires she should do it
>>> in two official languages just like she did once again with me within
>>> the latest NB Power Rate hearings which began last night in Fat Fred
>>> City N'esy Pas?
>>>
>>> P.S. Anyone can check out the EUB files in the 357, 375 and 430
>>> Matters from the Internent but in you must go to Federal court to read
>>> my files in the docket if you do not trust the one I present on the
>>> Internet
>>>
>>
>
Science behind NB Power's hydrogen venture too good to be true, critic says
Clean-energy company says its 'major' technology has to stay secret for now
Two partners in what they claim is a revolutionary new clean-energy technology are sounding different notes about just how revolutionary it is.
The CEO of Florida company Joi Scientific, which has sold the technology to NB Power, says while the new hydrogen-energy process could lead to "the world's first zero carbon grid" in New Brunswick, it doesn't break the laws of physics.
But NB Power CEO Gaëtan Thomas said after seeing firsthand seawater turned into hydrogen energy, he believes the process lives up to its hype.
Thomas told CBC News that he and his colleagues "came out of there actually believing that it's possible, this energy in-and-out, based on what we see in the lab."
The CEO of Florida company Joi Scientific, which has sold the technology to NB Power, says while the new hydrogen-energy process could lead to "the world's first zero carbon grid" in New Brunswick, it doesn't break the laws of physics.
But NB Power CEO Gaëtan Thomas said after seeing firsthand seawater turned into hydrogen energy, he believes the process lives up to its hype.
Thomas told CBC News that he and his colleagues "came out of there actually believing that it's possible, this energy in-and-out, based on what we see in the lab."
'Too good to be true'
Critics are warning that Joi's claims that its secret process can produce more energy than what's required to power it is not realistic.
"This sounds too good to be true," said Vancouver energy consultant Michael Barnard. "And it is."
This is Nobel Prize-winning stuff and it's obviously not viable.-Michael BarnardIt's impossible for ratepayers to know for sure because both the utility and Joi say revealing how it works now would tip off competitors.
Barnard said several of the claims would violate one of the fundamental laws of thermodynamics: that in a closed system, energy can only be transformed, not created or destroyed.
Among the assertions: A promotional video on Joi's website said the process "takes a tiny amount of energy to start a chemical process, making enough hydrogen to power the process itself and generate plenty more for use in fuel cells and engines and boilers."
More energy out than in
One of Joi's patents claims the process generates "200 per cent" of the energy put into it.
"For one watt of input energy, two watts of energy in the form of hydrogen gas is achieved," the patent says.
And NB Power vice-president Brett Plummer told a Senate committee last month that the research and development is focused on "making sure that we can get more energy out of the process than goes into the process."
"This is Nobel Prize-winning stuff and it's obviously not viable."
NB Power first revealed in December 2017 it was working with a private company on hydrogen, though it waited until February of this year to identify Joi.
The laws of physics
Willy Cook, who teaches chemical engineering at the University of New Brunswick, visited Joi's Florida lab and said he was impressed by what he saw, but "whether that substantiates the claims that they're getting a two-for-one, I can't go into that.
"From what I've seen I do not believe Joi Scientific is breaking any laws of thermodynamics."
"But just to clarify, we do not believe that in doing this, we're breaking any laws of physics. Especially not the first law of thermodynamics. We're just not that clever, and we don't think that can be done or that it's true."
Some sceptical of new technology
"We have seen results indicating, clearly indicating, independently witnessed, that it does produce more energy than in," Gaëtan Thomas said in an interview.
Thomas said people are skeptical because the technology is so new. He said it's not a chemical process, like existing and better-known methods for generating hydrogen power.
But Joi's video calls it a chemical process.
This is new technology that could benefit the whole country.-Gaëtan Thomas, NB Power CEOKennedy will only say that Joi uses the "the latent energy" in seawater, which is impossible in a conventional process like electrolysis.
The details, along with third-party verifications, remain secret for now.
"We can't talk about the technology in a public forum without eliminating our ability to file new patents because it would be in the public domain," Kennedy said.
"In order to keep all of our licensees, including New Brunswick Power, safe and to have their licences have meaningful value, we need to be careful about what we divulge."
Expert cautions EUB
Barnard said Kennedy's comments about using the "latent energy" in seawater doesn't change his assessment of the claims.
"It doesn't matter whether it's heat or electricity, you can't get more energy out than you put in," he said. "Yes, there is hydrogen in water, but it's stably bonded to oxygen and requires more energy, of any type, to extract than you get."
A U.S. energy expert has also sounded a cautious note, telling the Energy and Utilities Board that NB Power should not be funding the research out of its own budget.
Robert Knecht, a Massachusetts energy consultant hired by public intervener Heather Black, writes that with NB Power already planning annual rate increases of two per cent in its 10-year plan, "it becomes problematic to ask ratepayers to fund these research projects."
He said the research may be worthwhile but the provincial government should be funding it.
Kennedy says NB Power has paid Joi $10 million US or $13 million Cdn in licensing fees for the technology.
Of that, $6.7 million came from the Regional Development Corporation and the remainder from NB Power's own research budget.
Thomas said there is a potential impact on rates, "but when the risk of doing nothing causes a bigger impact on rates, we have to take the steps."
The $13 million licensing fee will give NB Power the first right to use the technology for power generation. It can then market the technology outside New Brunswick and share in the profits.
If the technology works on a large enough scale, the coal-fired Belledune plant could be converted to partly run on seawater from the nearby Bay of Chaleur.
The other alternative would be multiple smaller hydrogen generating plants — as many as 20 or 30 — around the province.
NB Power is talking to a manufacturer in Asia that would build the units. Thomas said it may take federal funding, or outside investment, to make it possible.
"This is new technology that could benefit the whole country," he said.
Testing still going on
Bruce MacFarlane, a spokesperson for the Regional Development Corporation, said "no other future payments are planned at this time" to NB Power for hydrogen.
Thomas said there's still "some debate" on the technology because it remains to be seen if the small experiments in Joi's lab can be reproduced on a large scale.
In written answers to the Energy and Utilities Board, NB Power's plans for having a prototype ready within two or three years are blacked out.
The document says that "advances in the laboratory prototype have been achieved and validated. Testing continues on the further development and scale-up of the prototype to a commercial prototype."
Under the heading "seawater to hydrogen," NB Power says in written answers that it forecasts "capital expenditures of this nature in the amount of $5 million in each year of the [10-year] plan" for the "referenced technology."
Utility won't get money back if testing fails
That would total $50 million, but NB Power spokesperson Marc Belliveau said that money is a "placeholder for unplanned/unexpected capital projects that may come up" in a given year and the money "has not been designated to Hydrogen."
But Thomas said some of it could be allocated to hydrogen if it becomes commercially viable.
NB Power is paying Joi what it calls a "reimbursable" licensing fee to become the first user of the company's technology in generating stations.
"When it [the technology] works, it will be reimbursable to NB Power," Thomas said.
If it doesn't work, Thomas said, NB Power won't be repaid, but the amount is small relative to the potential benefit.
Thomas has been named to Joi's board of directors, but neither he nor NB Power owns any stake in Joi, and Thomas isn't paid for his board duties.
Kennedy said Thomas was put on the board to have "direct insight into the goings-on of the company, what we're doing, how we're spending our time, how we're spending our money."
But Thomas said it's his experience with managing large projects that brings "value" to the Joi board and helps him grow that company.
With files from Alyssa Gould
CBC's Journalistic Standards and Practiceshttps://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/eub-hearing-nb-power-rate-design-smart-meters-1.4305685
EUB punts rate hearing as NB Power studies $122M smart meter plan
EUB agrees to suspend hearing so it can deal first with NB Power's proposed $122M purchase of smart meters
An effort to redesign the way NB Power charges customers for electricity — generally viewed as bad news for those who heat with electricity — has been suspended by the New Brunswick Energy and Utilities Board for one year.
The EUB has agreed to consider an upcoming NB Power application to spend $122 million on new "smart meters" for homes and businesses first.
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Energy and Utilities Board chair Raymond Gorman says the board has delayed the rate design hearing for one year. (Pat Richard/CBC)
NB Power has been under pressure from the EUB to better match prices it charges for electricity to the cost of producing and distributing power. That could see consumers paying substantially different prices for power between summer and winter — even between day and night.
But the utility has argued there is little room to make substantial changes like that until its entire inventory of power meters is upgraded.
"It is NB Power's submission that the rate design proceeding is … premature because it does contemplate discussion of rate design options that might not be available depending on … (smart meter) deployment," NB Power's senior legal counsel John Furey said during arguments for the suspension.
Unlike current units that have to be physically visited to be read, smart meters will connect directly to NB Power computers, allowing individual customers to have electricity consumption tracked several times an hour instead of once a month.
The utility says this will allow it to charge a variety of rates for electricity — more when consumption is higher, such as in the mornings, on weekends and during winter — and less when consumption is lower.
"We are going from reading a customer's meter once a month, so 12 times a year, up to 12 times an hour," former NB Power executive Neil Larlee said during testimony in front of the EUB last February.
But the new meters are expensive, an estimated $92 million to acquire one for each customer and another $30 million to have them installed and made operational.
It's an expense that largely requires EUB approval, something the regulator is expected to hear evidence on this winter and rule on by next spring. NB Power said without that decision being made first, redesigning rates made little sense.
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John Furey, NB Power's senior legal counsel, argued for the delay in the rate design hearing until the utility installs smart meters, which record power usage more frequently. (LinkedIn)
However, NB Power has argued smart meters will allow for enough discount periods that electric heat customers who move activities such as laundry, dishwashing and showers into the evening will be able to offset some or all of the increases they experience.
NB Power is expected to formally apply to buy and install smart meters provincewide within the next two weeks as part of its next general rate increase application.
The rate design hearing will resume next fall.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-power-smart-meters-experts-eub-1.4504618
The EUB has agreed to consider an upcoming NB Power application to spend $122 million on new "smart meters" for homes and businesses first.
"The Board finds that the AMI (Advanced Metering Infrastructure) application should precede the rate design hearing and therefore it is in the public interest to grant an adjournment," ruled EUB chairman Raymond Gorman in a brief hearing last week.
But the utility has argued there is little room to make substantial changes like that until its entire inventory of power meters is upgraded.
"It is NB Power's submission that the rate design proceeding is … premature because it does contemplate discussion of rate design options that might not be available depending on … (smart meter) deployment," NB Power's senior legal counsel John Furey said during arguments for the suspension.
Tracking more frequent
Unlike current units that have to be physically visited to be read, smart meters will connect directly to NB Power computers, allowing individual customers to have electricity consumption tracked several times an hour instead of once a month.
The utility says this will allow it to charge a variety of rates for electricity — more when consumption is higher, such as in the mornings, on weekends and during winter — and less when consumption is lower.
"We are going from reading a customer's meter once a month, so 12 times a year, up to 12 times an hour," former NB Power executive Neil Larlee said during testimony in front of the EUB last February.
Smart meters for $122M
But the new meters are expensive, an estimated $92 million to acquire one for each customer and another $30 million to have them installed and made operational.
It's an expense that largely requires EUB approval, something the regulator is expected to hear evidence on this winter and rule on by next spring. NB Power said without that decision being made first, redesigning rates made little sense.
"I don't see how we can have a meaningful process … because we don't know what rate design options are available or might be precluded in the event the (smart meter) decision is not to deploy or to deploy," said Furey.
Because those who heat with electricity consume large amounts of power during high-demand cold snaps, the rate design process is generally expected to result in higher costs for that group. However, NB Power has argued smart meters will allow for enough discount periods that electric heat customers who move activities such as laundry, dishwashing and showers into the evening will be able to offset some or all of the increases they experience.
NB Power is expected to formally apply to buy and install smart meters provincewide within the next two weeks as part of its next general rate increase application.
The rate design hearing will resume next fall.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/nb-power-smart-meters-experts-eub-1.4504618
NB Power's smart meters plan not so smart, 2 expert reviews find
$122M-plan is poorly thought out, should be rejected by EUB, separately commissioned reports conclude
NB Power's plan to spend $122.7 million over three years to deploy smart meters for all its residential and commercial customers is poorly thought out and should be rejected by the Energy and Utilities Board at hearings next month, according to separate experts hired to review the strategy.
"As currently proposed, the AMI [advanced metering infrastructure] project could commit NB Power and its customers to a heavy cost burden without fully defining and quantifying the future benefits to be gained," wrote Edmund Finamore, a smart meter consultant from Pennsylvania commissioned by public intervener Heather Black to scrutinize the plan.
"It is not clear that NB Power has implemented sufficient project management controls methods to execute a firm plan, achieve firm project milestones and control project costs."
- EUB punts rate hearing as NB Power studies $122M smart meter plan
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"NB Power has significantly understated the costs and overstated the benefits of its AMI proposal," says the analysis by a group of five authors working for Synapse Energy Economics out of Cambridge, Mass.
"We recommend that the board reject the company's AMI proposal."
'Essential' to cleaner, more reliable grid
NB Power has been working toward upgrading its distribution system to a "smart grid" over the past six years and the wholesale installation of smart meters and other AMI to serve every customer has long been a centrepiece of the utility's plan.
Unlike current units that have to be physically visited to be read, smart meters will connect directly to NB Power computers, allowing individual customers to have electricity consumption tracked several times an hour instead of once a month.
The utility says this will allow it to charge a variety of rates for electricity — more when consumption is higher, such as in the mornings, on weekends and during winter — and less when consumption is lower.
That in turn will encourage consumers to shift demand to underutilized parts of the day, it says.
"We are going from reading a customer's meter once a month, so 12 times a year, up to 12 times an hour," former NB Power executive Neil Larlee said during testimony in front of the EUB last February.
The meters will also allow customers to sell electricity back to NB Power if they install solar or other power generating capability on their property and will give the utility instant information on outages, including the individual homes affected.
"This communication network along with the AMI meters is essential to a building smarter, cleaner, more reliable and efficient power grid and will lay the foundation for many of the long-term customer benefits that NB Power will deliver through its Energy Smart NB plan," said the utility in its application to the EUB to acquire the units.
Cost outweighs savings
But even NB Power acknowledges the cost of buying, installing and operating 355,000 new smart meters to blanket the province in a three-year rollout is high without enough savings to completely pay for it.
The utility has detailed 15 ways the new meters will cut expenses but the combined benefits total just $121.4 million That's $1.3 million less than the program is budgeted to cost.
Spending so much money on an initiative that is not essential and not cost effective is unwise.- Synapse reportBoth Finnamore and Synapse Energy disputed the value of several of the claimed savings as inflated and Synapse further argued since NB Power's own numbers show the investment in smart meters will cost money in the long run the case is too weak to proceed.
"The company's own analysis suggests that the proposal is not cost effective and that analysis suffers from some fundamental flaws," concluded the Synapse report.
"Spending so much money on an initiative that is not essential and not cost effective is unwise."
Proposal needs refining
Both consultants suggested if properly handled, the introduction of smart meters could benefit both NB Power and its customers, but each separately concluded the utility's plan lacks detail and a convincing rationale.
Both called for the application to be denied so the utility can offer a more refined proposal.
NB Power is facing a 12-day hearing in front of the Energy and Utilities Board beginning Feb. 8.
In addition to seeking permission to invest in smart meters, it is also attempting to win approval for an average two per cent rate increase it has proposed for April 1 and is asking for the flexibility to employ special rate increases when large unexpected weather or market events cause its costs to jump unexpectedly.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/eub-hearings-nb-power-smart-meters-1.4529640
Opting out smart meter program could cost NB Power customers
Power customers in British Columbia, Quebec have faced fees for refusing the installation of smart meters
NB Power customers who do not want a smart meter installed on their home could be facing a stiff fee for that decision, but so far the utility is not saying how much it might be.
"It will be based on the principles of cost causation, but we have not gotten into the detail of what that fee would be at this point," said NB Power Senior Vice President of Operations Lori Clark at Energy and Utilities Board hearings on Friday.
In other jurisdictions that have already adopted smart meters, customers not wanting to participate have faced hundreds of dollars in extra charges.
In Quebec, smart meters were installed beginning in 2012. Customers who refused the devices were initially charged $98 to opt out plus a meter reading fee of $17 per month. That was eventually cut by Quebec's energy board in 2014 to a $15 refusal fee and a $5 per month meter reading surcharge.
NB Power said it may be a year or more before it settles on its own fee.
"The opt out policy will be developed and implemented as part of the roll out. It will be one of the last things we do," said Clark.
Customers need to be on board
NB Power is in front of the New Brunswick Energy and Utilities Board seeking permission to spend $122.7 million to install 350,000 smart meters province wide.
The meters require near universal adoption by customers to maximize their financial benefit — like eliminating more than $20 million a year NB Power currently spends to read meters manually. The utility has said the switch will not succeed if too many customers opt out.
"We certainly wouldn't be looking at making an investment of this size without having the customer with us," said Clark.
On Thursday, Kent County resident Daniel LeBlanc, who along with Roger Richard, is opposing the introduction of smart meters for health reasons, predicted a cool reception for the technology in many parts of the province.
"If one were to ask most of the people in the rural areas, I'm not sure you would get a lot of takers for this infrastructure," said LeBlanc, who is concerned with the long-term effect microwave frequencies used by the meters to transmit data may have on human health.
That issue is before the EUB next week.
Haven't tested the waters
NB Power acknowledged it has not measured public opinion on adopting smart meters but is confident it can convince customers it is a good idea for them and the utility.
"People don't understand what the smart meter is," said Clark. "We need to educate our customers first to allow them to make an informed decision so that will be part of the roll out plan."
Clark noted that smart meters, helped by stiff opting out penalties, were eventually accepted by 98 per cent of customers in British Columbia and by 97.4 per cent of customers in Quebec.
"We will check and adjust along the way if there are issues with customer uptake," said Clark.
"This is very similar to what has been done in other jurisdictions and they haven't had those challenges."
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https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/eub-hearing-nb-power-rate-design-smart-meters-1.4305685