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Paramedic ruling's impact on language rights debated in court

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Replying to and 49 others
Methinks folks should ask the obvious who owns Ambulance NB and where was their lawyer today N'esy Pas?



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/arbitration-ruling-bilingual-paramedics-mcevoy-ruling-1.4991605



Paramedic ruling's impact on language rights debated in court




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David R. Amos
David R. Amos
Methinks folks should ask the obvious who owns Ambulance NB and where was their lawyer today N'esy Pas?







Robert Cunningham 
Robert Cunningham
Seems like a case of English Paramedics can have the jobs until a French Paramedic come along. Poor fix if you ask me. If these people are willing to work there, either offer language training, or accept the fact that most people don't care what language someone is speaking when they save your life..... i'm sure this comment will not go over well.


daryl doucette
daryl doucette
@Robert Cunningham the really critical patients are unconscious. Think about that.

Marc Martin
Marc Martin
@Robert Cunningham

*offer language training*

That will be the case, training is always offered.

*accept the fact that most people don't care what language someone is speaking when they save your life*

Cant save you life if no one can communicate.

David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Marc Martin Cry me a river

Marc Martin
Marc Martin
@David R. Amos

Did you find another Marc Martin across Canada to harass Davis ?

Dan Lee
Dan Lee
@Marc Martin
i would say he is stalking you.......hmmm








Matt Steele 
Matt Steele
Seems like a waste of time as everyone knows what the outcome will be . An Anglophone paramedic can have the job until a Francophone wants it ; then the Anglophone will be fired . Govt. workers in N.B. are no longer hired based on merit or qualification , it is based on language . Welcome to N.B. , Canada's " ONLY " officially bilingual Province.....a failed Province . At least this has shown other Provinces how destructive forced frenchification is ; so no other province will ever adopt official bilingualism after seeing how destructive it has been in N.B.


David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Matt Steele So you say







Habs Killa 
Habs Killa
The revised agreement with the addition of float teams will *IMPROVE* care for *all* of us.

Float team members not currently assigned to a paramedic ambulance will be assigned patient movement requests. This is the cause of delayed call response; paramedic ambulances not available because they tied up moving patients from point A to point B.


David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Habs Killa Whats your point?








Habs Killa 
daryl doucette
This whole process is laughable. What a crock it is. The " Anglophone Rights Association" of NB was denied " intervener" status in this proceeding by a francophone judge, she stated that " The Anglophone Rights Association" only has " one" linguistic group ( the English) that it is focusing on in this issue, unlike the " Office of the Language Commissioner of New Brunswick" whom focus on advancing both linguistic communities". What utter nonsense! The Language Commissioners office is blatently pro francophone. Period. Any person, English, French or other with a half a functioning brain can see this. Simply look at the Language Commissioner, Mr. Carrier, and the SANB's attempt back in 2012 to have the " Language of Work" policy implemented into the " Official Languages Act" of New Brunswick, when it came up for its " 10 year review"...if that policy had been allowed to be inserted into the OLA it would have spelled the end of any UNILINGUAL person to get a job with government any where in New Brunswick.


Fred Brewer
Fred Brewer
@daryl doucette
100% correct. Just try to file an anglophone complaint with the Language Commissioner and you will quickly find out how biased that office is against anglophones.

Mack Leigh
Mack Leigh
@daryl doucette

Bang on brother !!

Marc Martin
Marc Martin
@daryl doucette

*The " Anglophone Rights Association" of NB was denied " intervener" status in this proceeding by a francophone judge*

Why would the judge allow an hate group to promote bigotry ?

Marc Martin
Marc Martin
@Fred Brewer

That's because your complaints are not valid..please show me one that is ?? English first on signs because the English are a majority is not a valid complaint...

David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Marc Martin Methinks that you are being ignored N'esy Pas?

Marc Martin
Marc Martin
@David R. Amos

Why are you responding to my posts then Davis ?

David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Marc Martin My lawsuit

daryl doucette
daryl doucette
@Marc Martin There you go again with the name calling. Now they are a " hate" group? You people are a broken record.....any one whom DARES question forced bilingualism is attacked. Old tactic, get a new one. And the REAL reason they were denied " intervener" status...they would have asked questions that people would not want to answer.








Habs Killa 
Jane Sherrard
Do most New Brunswickers not see a problem when thousands and thousands of Anglophone sector students give up their right to an education in their first language each year, in the spirit of becoming bilingual, but inevitably, fewer than 10% qualify for public sector jobs that require bilingualism? We have a major problem with the English education system and it's past time politicians take their heads out of the sand and take responsibility for the messes their predecessors have created. There is not a person in the world who would consider designing such convoluted and experimental second language programming that is inflicted on the Anglophone districts. The moral degradation of promoting division in English schools between English and French immersion classes, creating have and have not classes, funding French immersion children more than English program children, should be an outrage to every Canadian.


Mack Leigh
Mack Leigh
@Jane Sherrard

Well said !! It is too bad that we don't have a law firm or constitutional lawyer willing to take this mess on... Oh, wait only the " Distinct " francophones receive millions of taxpayers money annually with which they pay for all of their divisive court cases... The majority receives....nothing.....

Stephanie Haslam
Stephanie Haslam
@Mack Leigh, agreed. If we had access to a constitutional lawyer, we too might have a chance at getting favourable decisions based on broad interpretations of the OLA and the Charter. It's all about interpretation.

Stephanie Haslam
Stephanie Haslam
@Mack Leigh, I'm just going to leave this here. It is from the 2018 New Brunswick Public Accounts. I believe that a lawyer who is engaged to act as counsel for the language commissioner gets paid from the public purse. Doucet, Michel cr/Q.C., LL.B., Ll.M 26,183. That's twenty-six thousand dollars. https://www2.gnb.ca/content/dam/gnb/Departments/tb-ct/pdf/OC/PA18Sup.pdf

Mack Leigh
Mack Leigh
@Stephanie Haslam

Absolutely disgusting !! Forced Official Bilingualism = Largest Make Work Project for Francophones ..

Mack Leigh
Mack Leigh
@Stephanie Haslam

Guess that is how Doucet supplements his retirement income.... on the backs of the taxpayers of New Brunswick..

Marc Martin
Marc Martin
@Jane Sherrard

*fewer than 10% qualify for public sector jobs that require bilingualism? *

Then why are 46% of the provincial jobs unilingual English ? Stats don't lie...

Marc Martin
Marc Martin
@Mack Leigh

*Distinct " francophones receive millions of taxpayers money annually with which they pay for all of their divisive court cases*

They do ? Stats ? Facts ? Links ?

David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Mack Leigh "Well said !! It is too bad that we don't have a law firm or constitutional lawyer willing to take this mess on"

Methinks you must know that a lot of politicians know that I already did in a Pro Se fashion in Federal Court in 2015 N'esy Pas?

David R. Amos
Content disabled.
David R. Amos
@Jane Sherrard Methinsk you and you friends are wise not to feed the Troll N'esy Pas?

Jane Sherrard
Jane Sherrard
@Marc Martin After all the time, money and sacrifice the Anglophone sector spends delivering curriculum that teaches some students to speak French,, most do not graduate with a French speaking ability at a satisfactory level because it’s not “equal quality,” Francophone lobbyists and politicians have created a climate where iintolerance for English speakers is growning with each law passed. What happened to the right to an education in the child’s protected language? What kind of future is here for unilingual speakers? You say 46% of provincial jobs require English only, so that leaves 54% that the majority of people in NB don’t qualify for. More than 90% of French immersion students won’t qualify for either. Marc, there is a solution to our language mess here in NB. If all children were included in the second language goals, and if politicians allowed teachers and students of both sectors to work and learn together within their protected schools, in a few short years, everyone will be able to speak both official languages. If we ended the expensive and duplicate administrative costs of duality, then some of the savings could be used to fund our children’s education equally. The negative consequences of costly experimental French immersion programming needs to be scrutinised and it is past time for politicians to act. Solidarity and segregation are not bringing us together. Our children will unite us if politicians allow them to integrate on buses, in drama productions, sports teams, music, art, technology, assembly and showcasing events, etc. We can bilingualize all children in bilingual schools. so no one has to be.







Habs Killa 
Christopher Beliveau
Its to bad people wasted their votes on the conservatives and liberals, because if the people's alliance were leading the province right now. They would have found a way out of this language quagmire, by first eliminating the pro francophone language commissioner, and ending the biggest money waster duality. Remember this the next time we head to the polls, because another 50yrs of bilingualism will bury this province permanently.


Mack Leigh
Mack Leigh
@Christopher Beliveau

We don't have another 50 years in my opinion.... Ultimately this has little to do with language.... Power and Control is the goal with language just being the Francophone Elite's weapon of choice..... Language over Life , here in NB>.

Marc Martin
Marc Martin
@Christopher Beliveau

Of course they would, they would probably try to eliminate everything French and would face numerous lawsuits and backlash from Ottawa also, be glad they are not in power they don't even have a platform except to eliminate everything French...

Marc Martin
Marc Martin
@Mack Leigh

*Francophone Elite's *

Who are these elites ??

*Language over Life *

Who died because of language ?

David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Marc Martin Methinks even you must have lost count on how many times you asked the same questions and were answered N'esy Pas?

Marc Martin
Marc Martin
@David R. Amos

None of them where answered...

Christopher Beliveau
Christopher Beliveau @Marc Martin Ending duality is not ending everything french. The way it used to be is predominantly french areas would be basically everything in french. They're town hall meeting's, signage, schooling, and so on. An for the areas predominantly english the same thing. But now we are wasting money bilingualism, which hasn't worked in the 50+ years its been in place. Now we are at each other's throats, if anything bilingualism has divided us. It used to be you were hired because of experience, now if the only language you speak is french your hired even if you have zero experience. That's not right, and not fair.










Habs Killa 
Wendy Staples
The judge is not fooling anyone, her mind is made up and it certainly won't be for the benefit of the majority of New Brunswickers…...farce.


Matt Steele
Matt Steele
@Wendy Staples ....Very true ; the decision was already made before the hearing even started....just a total waste of time and money . Luckily New Brunswicker's are starting to wake up ; so maybe after a few more ONE TERM govt. , maybe politicians will get the message than N.B.ers are fed up .

Marc Martin
Marc Martin
@Wendy Staples

*and it certainly won't be for the benefit of the majority of New Brunswickers*

Why wont it benefit you ? You know the definition of bilingual right ?

David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Wendy Staples I agree








Habs Killa 
Nathan Simpson
You have to wonder just how bad things would have to get before we start seriously considering making changes as a province. More deaths than births, young people leaving, high unemployment, massive debt, etc, etc.

Now we have people dying because ambulances are unable to be staffed. Does language trump peoples lives and safety?

If you say yes then I pray your love ones never need an ambulance that is not available.


Marc Martin
Marc Martin
@Nathan Simpson

*Now we have people dying because ambulances are unable to be staffed*

Who died because of language ? You wont find any...Try again.

David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Marc Martin Methinks you are rather redundant N'esy Pas?

Christopher Beliveau
Christopher Beliveau
@Marc Martin Actually a gentleman in Northern NB died last year, because the ambulance sub-station was not manned. An it wasn't manned because they were unable to find two bilingual paramedics for that area. An area which is predominantly English, but because of some stupid duality law, a man died.









Habs Killa 
Mack Leigh
Sadly not one person was there to represent the non-francophones of New Brunswick...... Once more the push is on for the forced frenchification of our province at the expense of the majority..... " Bilingual where numbers warrant " is what the people of NB signed up for and agreed to...... not the warped version that now is in play with changes being made to the OLA that benefit one minority only..


daryl doucette
daryl doucette
@Mack Leigh They are ' sneaky" when it comes to these so called " public" forums re discussing bilingualism. What these French groups do is insert a teeny weeny notice in some obscure back page of the English newspapers notifying the " public" that they are " invited" to one of their so called " forums" re bilingualism. why do I know this? Seen one way back in 2012. Crashed their meeting at U de M and asked some tough questions... they refused to answer.....got a lot of blank stares....and the guest speaker at that one was the " Commissioner of Official Languages" Michel Carrier...these people are some thing else i'll tell ya...

Mack Leigh
Mack Leigh
@daryl doucette

Would have loved to have been there when you asked the questions ... Would have had a few questions for them myself......

Marc Martin
Marc Martin
@Mack Leigh

* Bilingual where numbers warrant " is what the people of NB signed up for and agreed to*

You didn't sign on anything.

David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Marc Martin Methinks you know as well as I that I signed the lawsuit that you make fun of N'esy Pas?

Marc Martin
Marc Martin
@David R. Amos

Are you sure your talking to the right Marc Martin Davis?








 Habs Killa 
Seamus O'hern
"Welcome to the Jungle"


David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Seamus O'hern "Welcome to the Jungle"

I disagree I say Welcome to the Circus

Methinks everybody knows they brought to jungle animals to Fat Fred City N'esy Pas?







Habs Killa 
Mack Leigh
Welcome to NB, the province of apartheid governing..


David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Mack Leigh Methinks it ain't over til the fat lady sings and there will always be another election N'esy Pas?








Habs Killa 
Mack Leigh
Is government still paying for Francophones to take the paramedic course ?? You know, the course that is being given at Francophone Community Colleges only..... All non-francophones must pay for their own course...thanks to the set-up by Gallant and his cronies..... Has Higgs changed this yet ??


David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Mack Leigh Methinks its hard telling not knowing for sure N'esy Pas?









Harold Benson
Harold Benson
I think they should go back to sand and salt for the roads, and forget about the beet juice and mollasses. That grit gives some nice traction.


David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Harold Benson Methinks Mr Higgs should appropriate the brand new potash mine in Sussex that just shut down permanently and start selling salt N'esy Pas?










Habs Killa 
Alex Butt
Hard to believe that New Brunswick ever left the stone age! If I was a paramedic I would leave this province so fast it would make heads spin. The clowns in charge waste more effort and money on this bilingualism bovine feces than the health of it's residents. What a farce!


David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Alex Butt Oh So True but methinks the clowns make up for the malicious nonsense by providing us with quite a comical Circus N'esy Pas?







Harold Benson
Harold Benson
I'd sue.


David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Harold Benson I did










Habs Killa 
Colin Seeley
I detest being called a “ phone “.

Keep the phone to yourself.

I am English.


David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Colin Seeley Methinks it beats being called a phonie like the French lingo spells it N'esy Pas?







Marc Martin
Mack Leigh
Are there no non-francophone judges or lawyers left in NB that have any.....any authority or political sway ?? We are truly a captured province with the tail wagging the dog...


Marc Martin
Marc Martin
@Mack Leigh

Don't call yourself that name....

David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Marc Martin FYI I refer to myself as a dog all the time Methinks it beats being a phonie N'esy Pas?









Habs Killa 
Mario Doucet
Stop funding SANB.


David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Mario Doucet I agree

Marc Martin
Marc Martin
@Mario Doucet

That would mean to stop funding every non for profit organism across the province....

John O'Brien
John O'Brien
@Marc Martin If that is what it takes. I really resent that some of my tax money goes to fund Michel Doucet because he is NOT working in the best interest of the majority of NBers.








John O'Brien 
Natalie Pugh
"Michel Doucet, a lawyer for the province's official languages commissioner, quoted a 1999 Supreme Court of Canada decision that said language cases must "in all cases" be interpreted broadly, in line with the law's goal of linguistic equality"

This is what they don't get. There never will be "linguistic equality" in NB simply because of the low numbers of francophones compared to the number of anglophones. So stop trying to force this failed experiment upon English speaking NB's. WE don't want it and don't deserve it.


David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Natalie Pugh Methinks we need a referendum just like the Quebeckers got years ago N'esy Pas?

Marc Martin
Marc Martin
@David R. Amos

So you want to separate from Canada Davis ?

Mack Leigh
Mack Leigh
@Natalie Pugh T

This is not about bilingualism... This is not about equality.... This is not about language... This is all.......all about Power and Control.... Language is just the Francophone Elites' such as Doucet , Carrier, SANB et al , weapon of choice.... Time to take back our province from those who wish to conquer and control it..

David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Marc Martin Who is Davis?







John O'Brien 
Jake Newman
I need a paramedic who speaks Klingon.


David R. Amos
David R. Amos
@Jake Newman Methinks your shrink may know one N'esy Pas?





Paramedic ruling's impact on language rights debated in court

Previous government sent McEvoy ruling on hiring for a judicial review because of bilingual service concerns


A judicial review was scheduled Thursday to determine if McEvoy's ruling violated the language law and Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees of bilingual government services in New Brunswick. (Radio-Canada/Guy R. LeBlanc)



Lawyers argued Thursday over whether a controversial arbitration ruling on bilingual paramedics has sweeping constitutional implication for language rights — or is a narrow labour decision that ought to be upheld.

The case is central to the ongoing debate about how Ambulance New Brunswick should meet its legal obligations to provide bilingual service while respecting the seniority rights of its employees.

Government lawyer Keith Mullin told the judicial review hearing in the Court of Queen's Bench that the 2018 ruling by labour arbitrator John McEvoy would "wipe away" language rights protected by the charter of Rights and Freedoms and the Official Languages Act.


"These are things we all have to follow," he said, asking the judge to quash the McEvoy ruling. "This is the law of the land."
Michel Doucet, a lawyer for the province's official languages commissioner, quoted a 1999 Supreme Court of Canada decision that said language cases must "in all cases" be interpreted broadly, in line with the law's goal of linguistic equality.

But Glen Gallant, a lawyer for the union representing paramedics, Local 4848 of the Canadian Union of Public Employees, argued that McEvoy's ruling is a narrow decision that affects only the employer and the workers.

"It's a labour relations case," he said. "It's not a charter case. It's not a pure language-rights case. … This is a private matter and the decision doesn't go any farther than that."


Michel Doucet, a lawyer for the province's official languages commissioner, quoted the Supreme Court's 1999 Beaulac case, which said language rights must be interpreted broadly. (Jacques Poitras/CBC)
Justice Denise LeBlanc appeared skeptical of that. "We are talking about services that are offered to the general public," she said.

Gallant answered that McEvoy "was only deciding the rights of the two parties before him."

McEvoy's decision last year gave hope to unilingual paramedics who have not been able to get full-time permanent jobs with Ambulance New Brunswick. At the same time, many positions designated as bilingual have gone unfilled.

McEvoy said this violated the union contract because paramedics with higher second-language abilities were getting positions over unilingual candidates with more seniority.

McEvoy's ruling


In the ruling, McEvoy said the province could forgo hiring bilingual paramedics in areas of the province where there is less demand for second-language service. He suggested crews use a "language line" that would let a patient talk to a bilingual staffer over a radio system.

The previous Liberal government sent the ruling for a judicial review.

But in December, the new Progressive Conservative government directed Ambulance New Brunswick to implement the decision, a move denounced by acting language commissioner Michel Carrier as violating the law.


Glen Gallant, lawyer for Local 4848 of the Canadian Union of Public Employees, said arbitrator John McEvoy was not deciding a broader issue of constitutional law when he made his ruling. (Jacques Poitras/CBC)
New Brunswick's language law requires equal service in both languages in all areas of the province.
Last week, Health Minister Ted Flemming backtracked and abandoned the December order in favour of a new directive that he says respects bilingualism requirements.

It will see unilingual paramedics hired onto "float teams" that will temporarily fill vacant bilingual-designated positions.

Even so, Thursday's hearing went ahead to establish whether the McEvoy ruling complies with the language law and with charter rights.
Mullin and Doucet both quoted the Supreme Court's 1999 Beaulac case, which said language rights must be interpreted broadly.

The ruling said both languages must be treated equally and governments can't implement policies that treat one language as the primary language and the other as a secondary language that is "accommodated."

Designating regions of the province where ambulance services would not be offered equally in both languages "is exactly what the court said not to do," Mullin argued. He said McEvoy's ruling would "alter" that right.

Bilingual service


Doucet quoted a section of the charter that says New Brunswickers have the right to be served equally in English and French.

He pointed out that section was passed by elected members of the legislature.
"It's not up to an arbitrator to disavow or ignore that choice."

Doucet also pointed out that the Official Languages Act allows for a "reasonable delay" in bilingual service from police officers and said if legislators had wanted a similar exception for ambulances, they'd have written it into the law.

Both lawyers argued that because McEvoy's ruling touched on constitutional rights, it has a higher standard of review: it has to be legally correct.

Doesn't touch the charter


But Gallant, the union's lawyer, argued McEvoy "was not deciding a broader issue of constitutional law" so the judge only has to find his ruling "reasonable," not strictly correct.

LeBlanc didn't appear persuaded by that, telling Gallant she felt the case had to be interpreted "in accordance with decisions handed down by the Supreme Court and the [New Brunswick] Court of Appeal."

Gallant also argued McEvoy was only being realistic about the difficulties of providing bilingual service everywhere.
He said weakening the hiring requirements in favour of a "language line" was "not an accommodation but a necessary response to the realities we have in New Brunswick."

He also said it would be "more equal" for a patient to talk to a fully bilingual staffer over a radio line than to deal with a paramedic with only a mediocre ability to speak their language.

LeBlanc, who was appointed a Court of Queen's Bench justice last June, did not give a timeline for when she expects to rule in the case.

"It was not an easy case to argue and I can assure you it's not going to be an easy case to decide," she told the lawyers.

CBC's Journalistic Standards and Practices

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