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David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
Replying to @DavidRayAmos@Kathryn98967631 and 49 others
#nbpoli#cdnpoli
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/seed-program-student-jobs-mlas-political-interference-1.5438493
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Green Party Leader David Coon said MLAs should not be included in the SEED program process because it could lead to abuse. (CBC)
Critics admonished the New Brunswick government for giving politicians more say in its provincial student employment program — influence, they say, that opens the door for abuse.
The Progressive Conservatives announced changes to the Student Employment Experience Development, or SEED, program that scrap the lottery for placement vouchers in favour of students applying directly to approved employers, which have been limited to non-profit organizations, First Nations and municipalities.
Employers can apply for SEED funding, and each MLA, regardless of party affiliation, will be allowed to recommend 22 placements in their riding.
Labour Minister Trevor Holder said earlier this week the Department of Post-Secondary Education, Training and Labour will have the final say over employers, but critics believe putting politicians back in the process is wrong.
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Trevor Holder, minister of post-secondary education, training and labour, details the latest round of changes to the SEED program during a press conference Tuesday in Fredericton. (Shane Fowler/CBC)
Green Party Leader David Coon said he's "very unhappy" with the decision.
"It's patently unacceptable to involve MLAs in making decisions about summer student job funding," he told CBC News.
"I fought hard in 2014 and early 2015 to convince the government of the day to replace that process and I was successful. They agreed with me that it had no place in modern day New Brunswick and now the [PC] government has brought it back."
The New Brunswick government has overhauled the SEED program, cutting the number of students who can benefit from the summer job program and changing how they're chosen. Liberal MLA Roger Melanson, Progressive Conservative MLA Jake Stewart, People's Alliance Leader Kris Austin and Green Party Leader David Coon debate the changes on the Political Panel. 39:18
Coon said there are no criteria for which employers can be recommended and history shows the program can be abused.
"In the bad old days, some of the worst examples that I heard about where some MLAs told non-profits that, you know, they would get the funding if they hired this person or that person should they get the funding," Coon said.
He continued: "I'm not saying the majority of MLAs are going to abuse it that way, but it opens it up to that and we've certainly seen it in the past."
The previous Liberal government installed a system in which high school and post-secondary students entered a draw for placement vouchers and interested employers would then have to find a student with a voucher.
Liberal MLA Roger Melanson, a cabinet minister in the previous government, said Thursday it was designed to allow students to work in their field of study.
Holder said that system meant some unlucky students never received a placement, and it also created a disadvantage for rural employers and some non-profits that relied on students to run summer programs because there weren't enough nearby students with vouchers.
"In my view we have finally taken the politics out of it and treated every region around the province equal, regardless of how the people in that area voted," Holder told reporters on Tuesday. "And I think this will go a long way to de-politicizing this process."
The New Brunswick Student Alliance, which previously lobbied to have MLAs removed from the program, criticized the changes following the announcement, saying department officials were better suited at identifying job opportunities.
In a followup statement, executive director KJ Conyers-Steede said the changes will limit the variety of available placements, especially those interested in the business sector.
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KJ Conyers-Steede, executive director of the New Brunswick Student Alliance, says his organization was not consulted by the government in making the changes. (Shane Fowler/CBC)
He said the alliance was concerned with renewed political involvement and fewer placements overall.
"We view these changes as a step in the wrong direction by politicizing the post-secondary sector," the statement said. "Student issues are being ignored and convoluted in a system that prioritizes political wins over resolving the real concerns of students."
Mario Levesque, a political science professor at Mount Allison University, said giving MLAs a voice in the process is "simply wrong."
"It does leave room for politics to enter the decision-making process again, which is unfortunate," Levesque said. 'I think that you would want to try to eliminate politics from it altogether."
The labour minister said he trusts MLAs to understand their district's priorities and that it's part of the government's "strategy to empower MLAs," but Levesque said that's "silly."
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Political Scientist Mario Levesque said the change to include politicians the process is undemocratic. (CBC)
"MLAs here are having the power to choose the people and what positions [they] get in their own riding. That's political interference in the summer jobs program," he said. "That should not be acceptable and not allowable at all. That's pure partisanship and, in our democratic society, wrong actually."
Both Levesque and Coon said the placements shouldn't be spread evenly throughout the province since there's more need in the cities.
The Green leader said it should be up to the Department of Post-Secondary Education, Training and Labour to develop criteria for placements.
The PC changes also include fewer job placements — down 200 from the 1,400 jobs last summer.
The Tories say that by keeping the budget steady at $5.5 million but focusing on non-profits and First Nations, there are fewer dollars to go around.
The government covers 100 per cent of placements in those areas, whereas the private sector received a 50 per cent subsidy. Municipalities also take on half of the cost.
Shawn Tabor
Sad
Andy Davis
Reformacons and abuse go hand in hand... everyone with half a brain knows it already
David Amos
Methinks none of Higgy's actions should surprise the leader of the Green Party Before he who can't be named in this domain was ever elected to public office I saved a recording him saying we get the governments we deserve N'esy Pas?
James Reed
I guess I have another perspective on this issue – as a former civil servant who worked in community funding programs, this makes complete sense to me. Think about it this way – there are usually many more eligible projects than there is money... how do I know what the best use of funding is in some community in Northern New Brunswick is, some nature park or the SPCA? When you have 50 eligible projects and only enough funding for 15 or 20, we were always directed to ask the MLAs to make recommendations – that not only gave us better sense of how to best use the limited resources, but also gave us cover from the “why didn’t I get funding?” question – answer, talk to your MLA. Even outside of government, I still use MLAs as a resource with local questions – holding a community meeting in another part of the province and need suggestions on a potential location like community hall or service group providing catering – call the MLA.... did this not too long ago. MLA’s office got back to me with potential hall rentals, and even the name and phone numbers of the person to call.
There are going to be probably many more non-profit groups requesting students than there will be funding available – I’m not sure what the issue is with, when all things being equal, an elected official making a decision over an unelected civil servant... elected officials are at least accountable to the people.
Fred Brewer
Gerry Ferguson
Of all the MLAs in this province David Coon seems to get non stop coverage of every word that comes out of his mouth. Why does he get so much attention?
Jim Cyr
Jim Cyr
Now gang, we all know that we will never, ever see an article or headline like this when Liberals are in power in NB. smh
Johnny Horton
Brian Robertson
Oh look!
The CBC is still following David Coon around.
Do you think they'll start a fan club?
Fred Dee
Funny.... every MLA will have the same ability!!!!unlike is the past where winner takes all. Of course Green Party is upset.. they get 22. lol
Neil MacLean
I've worked in the context where there was substantial political control over the filling of non-professional support positions. And if it is done so that applicants are assured of the ability to do the work, I'm not really opposed to that. Patronage is far preferable to nepotism which is what you often tend to get when there is no patronage. Politicians are far easier to embarrass than somebody's relative. So there is some limited answerability, whereas much much less answerability with patronage . And truthfully there are some good people in politics who may use such discretion to help somebody in particular need who can do the work but might otherwise be among a great crowd of acceptable applicants. Or maybe they might just come from a loyal family to "the party" and that isn't necessarily all bad. WE have a huge problem with voter apathy and patronage definitely gives reason for folks to stay interested. So I tend to favour patronage as a bulwark against nepotism, and as a means of stimulating political engagement.
Johnny Horton
Ow please. The system has been abused since I was a student in the early 70s. Everybody knew then the secret to s summer job was to know a minister or someone who did.
Ben Haroldson
Happened at nbp, point lepreau big time. You had to be " pals " with the minister.
Fred Brewer
Well, you know. What's the point of being an MLA if you cannot get your son or daughter a job right? This ranks right up there with MLA's being able to give themselves a pay raise. It just ain't right. Mr. Higgs and all Conservatives should be ashamed of themselves.
Ben Haroldson
David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
Replying to @DavidRayAmos@Kathryn98967631 and 49 others
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/seed-program-student-jobs-mlas-political-interference-1.5438493
Critics lambaste PCs for 'politicizing' SEED program
MLAs can recommend 22 jobs placements each under overhauled SEED program
CBC News· Posted: Jan 23, 2020 7:50 PM AT
Green Party Leader David Coon said MLAs should not be included in the SEED program process because it could lead to abuse. (CBC)
Critics admonished the New Brunswick government for giving politicians more say in its provincial student employment program — influence, they say, that opens the door for abuse.
The Progressive Conservatives announced changes to the Student Employment Experience Development, or SEED, program that scrap the lottery for placement vouchers in favour of students applying directly to approved employers, which have been limited to non-profit organizations, First Nations and municipalities.
Employers can apply for SEED funding, and each MLA, regardless of party affiliation, will be allowed to recommend 22 placements in their riding.
Labour Minister Trevor Holder said earlier this week the Department of Post-Secondary Education, Training and Labour will have the final say over employers, but critics believe putting politicians back in the process is wrong.
Trevor Holder, minister of post-secondary education, training and labour, details the latest round of changes to the SEED program during a press conference Tuesday in Fredericton. (Shane Fowler/CBC)
Green Party Leader David Coon said he's "very unhappy" with the decision.
"It's patently unacceptable to involve MLAs in making decisions about summer student job funding," he told CBC News.
"I fought hard in 2014 and early 2015 to convince the government of the day to replace that process and I was successful. They agreed with me that it had no place in modern day New Brunswick and now the [PC] government has brought it back."
The Political Panel from CBC News New Brunswick
Jan. 23: Province changes how student summer job program works
Coon said there are no criteria for which employers can be recommended and history shows the program can be abused.
"In the bad old days, some of the worst examples that I heard about where some MLAs told non-profits that, you know, they would get the funding if they hired this person or that person should they get the funding," Coon said.
He continued: "I'm not saying the majority of MLAs are going to abuse it that way, but it opens it up to that and we've certainly seen it in the past."
System changes
The previous Liberal government installed a system in which high school and post-secondary students entered a draw for placement vouchers and interested employers would then have to find a student with a voucher.
Liberal MLA Roger Melanson, a cabinet minister in the previous government, said Thursday it was designed to allow students to work in their field of study.
Holder said that system meant some unlucky students never received a placement, and it also created a disadvantage for rural employers and some non-profits that relied on students to run summer programs because there weren't enough nearby students with vouchers.
"In my view we have finally taken the politics out of it and treated every region around the province equal, regardless of how the people in that area voted," Holder told reporters on Tuesday. "And I think this will go a long way to de-politicizing this process."
The New Brunswick Student Alliance, which previously lobbied to have MLAs removed from the program, criticized the changes following the announcement, saying department officials were better suited at identifying job opportunities.
In a followup statement, executive director KJ Conyers-Steede said the changes will limit the variety of available placements, especially those interested in the business sector.
KJ Conyers-Steede, executive director of the New Brunswick Student Alliance, says his organization was not consulted by the government in making the changes. (Shane Fowler/CBC)
He said the alliance was concerned with renewed political involvement and fewer placements overall.
"We view these changes as a step in the wrong direction by politicizing the post-secondary sector," the statement said. "Student issues are being ignored and convoluted in a system that prioritizes political wins over resolving the real concerns of students."
'That's political interference'
Mario Levesque, a political science professor at Mount Allison University, said giving MLAs a voice in the process is "simply wrong."
"It does leave room for politics to enter the decision-making process again, which is unfortunate," Levesque said. 'I think that you would want to try to eliminate politics from it altogether."
The labour minister said he trusts MLAs to understand their district's priorities and that it's part of the government's "strategy to empower MLAs," but Levesque said that's "silly."
Political Scientist Mario Levesque said the change to include politicians the process is undemocratic. (CBC)
"MLAs here are having the power to choose the people and what positions [they] get in their own riding. That's political interference in the summer jobs program," he said. "That should not be acceptable and not allowable at all. That's pure partisanship and, in our democratic society, wrong actually."
Both Levesque and Coon said the placements shouldn't be spread evenly throughout the province since there's more need in the cities.
The Green leader said it should be up to the Department of Post-Secondary Education, Training and Labour to develop criteria for placements.
The PC changes also include fewer job placements — down 200 from the 1,400 jobs last summer.
The Tories say that by keeping the budget steady at $5.5 million but focusing on non-profits and First Nations, there are fewer dollars to go around.
The government covers 100 per cent of placements in those areas, whereas the private sector received a 50 per cent subsidy. Municipalities also take on half of the cost.
With files from Jennifer Sweet and the CBC New Brunswick Political Podcast
46 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.Shawn Tabor
Sad
Andy Davis
Reformacons and abuse go hand in hand... everyone with half a brain knows it already
David Amos
Reply to @Andy Davis: Methinks everyone with a complete brain knows that the liberals and the other political gangs dance hand in hand with Higgy and his minions as they abuse us all N'esy Pas?
David Amos
Methinks none of Higgy's actions should surprise the leader of the Green Party Before he who can't be named in this domain was ever elected to public office I saved a recording him saying we get the governments we deserve N'esy Pas?
James Reed
I guess I have another perspective on this issue – as a former civil servant who worked in community funding programs, this makes complete sense to me. Think about it this way – there are usually many more eligible projects than there is money... how do I know what the best use of funding is in some community in Northern New Brunswick is, some nature park or the SPCA? When you have 50 eligible projects and only enough funding for 15 or 20, we were always directed to ask the MLAs to make recommendations – that not only gave us better sense of how to best use the limited resources, but also gave us cover from the “why didn’t I get funding?” question – answer, talk to your MLA. Even outside of government, I still use MLAs as a resource with local questions – holding a community meeting in another part of the province and need suggestions on a potential location like community hall or service group providing catering – call the MLA.... did this not too long ago. MLA’s office got back to me with potential hall rentals, and even the name and phone numbers of the person to call.
There are going to be probably many more non-profit groups requesting students than there will be funding available – I’m not sure what the issue is with, when all things being equal, an elected official making a decision over an unelected civil servant... elected officials are at least accountable to the people.
Fred Brewer
Reply to @James Reed: And when you ask for advice from the MLA as to who should get a job, do you also ask the MLA if they have any connection to those students that they are recommending? But here is the main point I wish to make, why involve the MLA at all? It is the SEED department's responsibility to make decisions. That is what they are paid to do, so why involve politics that will only invite nepotism?
Ben Haroldson
Reply to @Fred Brewer: Invite? Nb is already rife with it. It used to be illegal and it should be again.
David Amos
Reply to @Fred Brewer: Why act surprised?
Gerry Ferguson
Of all the MLAs in this province David Coon seems to get non stop coverage of every word that comes out of his mouth. Why does he get so much attention?
Jim Cyr
Reply to @Gerry Ferguson: He’s a Green, so that makes him, like, super cool and important.
Or something.
Or something.
Gabriel Boucher
Reply to @Gerry Ferguson:
Maybe it's because that he's the only party leader who's actually fighting the good fight. I haven't seen Victor Boudreau do anything at all these past couple of months, and Kris Austin is too busy kissing Higgs' derrière. I think the latter should be more concerning at this point.
Maybe it's because that he's the only party leader who's actually fighting the good fight. I haven't seen Victor Boudreau do anything at all these past couple of months, and Kris Austin is too busy kissing Higgs' derrière. I think the latter should be more concerning at this point.
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Gabriel Boucher:
Hilarious, fighting the good fight? You mean like lining up and voting himself raises and perks like every other mla. He’s just as corruot and self serving as all the others,
Hilarious, fighting the good fight? You mean like lining up and voting himself raises and perks like every other mla. He’s just as corruot and self serving as all the others,
Michel Forgeron
Reply to @Gabriel Boucher: Victor BoudreaU is not a party leader. In fact he is not even an MLA - he retired in 2018.
Kevin Cormier
Reply to @Michel Forgeron: I had a good chuckle out of that! I suppose Gabriel is also wondering about Tanker Malley's lack of action or why Margaret-Ann Blaney is not on the news much.
Marc Martin
Reply to @Gerry Ferguson: Because he is everywhere and he is talking to the public total opposite of Higgy.
Fred Brewer
Reply to @Gerry Ferguson: Maybe he is getting the coverage because he is raising important issues that deserve coverage.
David Amos
Reply to @Gerry Ferguson: Methinks much to Higgy's chagrin that clown in particular makes the circus all the more enjoyable N'esy Pas?
Jim Cyr
Now gang, we all know that we will never, ever see an article or headline like this when Liberals are in power in NB. smh
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Jim Cyr:
Cause the liberals wouldn’t get someone hired, they’d instead dump a bunch of money in someones lap and say, go create a cool extravagant job!
Cause the liberals wouldn’t get someone hired, they’d instead dump a bunch of money in someones lap and say, go create a cool extravagant job!
Repair Guy
Reply to @Jim Cyr: Because the Liberals took politics out of the summer jobs program, like it should be. One of the few things they got right.
David Amos
Reply to @Repair Guy: Methinks most folks would never believe that your name is on your Medicare card and Drivers license etc N'esy Pas?
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Repair Guy:
They didn’t get it right at all. Gov should not even be funding summer jobs.
They didn’t get it right at all. Gov should not even be funding summer jobs.
Brian Robertson
Oh look!
The CBC is still following David Coon around.
Do you think they'll start a fan club?
Fred Brewer
Reply to @Brian Robertson: Hate the Greens much?
David Amos
Reply to @Brian Robertson: They had one for him long before he was ever elected
Brian Robertson
Reply to @Fred Brewer:
Not really; but I do dislike the obvious bias of a publicly funded service that is supposed to serve all Canadians.
Not really; but I do dislike the obvious bias of a publicly funded service that is supposed to serve all Canadians.
Fred Dee
Funny.... every MLA will have the same ability!!!!unlike is the past where winner takes all. Of course Green Party is upset.. they get 22. lol
Fred Brewer
Reply to @Fred Dee: Cannot follow your math. Green party with 3 MLA's would get 66 not 22.
David Amos
Reply to @Fred Brewer: I am impressed that you understand a bit of math So when are you gonna learn to read?
Neil MacLean
I've worked in the context where there was substantial political control over the filling of non-professional support positions. And if it is done so that applicants are assured of the ability to do the work, I'm not really opposed to that. Patronage is far preferable to nepotism which is what you often tend to get when there is no patronage. Politicians are far easier to embarrass than somebody's relative. So there is some limited answerability, whereas much much less answerability with patronage . And truthfully there are some good people in politics who may use such discretion to help somebody in particular need who can do the work but might otherwise be among a great crowd of acceptable applicants. Or maybe they might just come from a loyal family to "the party" and that isn't necessarily all bad. WE have a huge problem with voter apathy and patronage definitely gives reason for folks to stay interested. So I tend to favour patronage as a bulwark against nepotism, and as a means of stimulating political engagement.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Neil MacLean: As you state, patronage will never be completely eliminated. Either an elected politician who is answerable to the electorate does it or someone else, such as a bureaucrat. If an MLA's patronage gets too excessive, at least we can kick him the the curb.
David Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Methinks a certain wannabe lady doth jest too much N'esy Pas?
Johnny Horton
Ow please. The system has been abused since I was a student in the early 70s. Everybody knew then the secret to s summer job was to know a minister or someone who did.
Eugene Peabody
Reply to @Johnny Horton: And that was the reason it was changed.But Higgs wants to turn back time so they can reward party members.
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Eugene Peabody:
It was ever changed. They might have masked it, but MLAs and senior civil servant still pushed and got their people hired for the summer jobs. Anybody het hints otherwise is beyond naive,
It was ever changed. They might have masked it, but MLAs and senior civil servant still pushed and got their people hired for the summer jobs. Anybody het hints otherwise is beyond naive,
David Amos
Reply to @Eugene Peabody: YUP
Ben Haroldson
Happened at nbp, point lepreau big time. You had to be " pals " with the minister.
David Amos
Reply to @Ben Haroldson: Methinks everybody knows that it has always been that way N'esy Pas?
Fred Brewer
Well, you know. What's the point of being an MLA if you cannot get your son or daughter a job right? This ranks right up there with MLA's being able to give themselves a pay raise. It just ain't right. Mr. Higgs and all Conservatives should be ashamed of themselves.
Ben Haroldson
Reply to @Fred Brewer: There ain't no shame in that business.
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Fred Brewer:
It’s a summer job... it’s not the end of the world.
There isn’t a single one of us who wouldn’t help our kids get a job if we could. I don’t only mean as a politician but as a parent and talking up your kid or calling people y know,
People need to stop being hypocrites.q
It’s a summer job... it’s not the end of the world.
There isn’t a single one of us who wouldn’t help our kids get a job if we could. I don’t only mean as a politician but as a parent and talking up your kid or calling people y know,
People need to stop being hypocrites.q
Gabriel Boucher
Reply to @Johnny Horton:
It's more than a summer job. It's the work experience that students usually applies for when they apply for the SEED program. Most of these students don't have work experience, which makes it hard for them to find actual work outside the program. We live in a time where employers are avoiding to pay for training in order to cut costs, as they keep asking for some mandatory work experience just to even apply for the job. That rules out most students with no work experience. The SEED program was supposed to bridge that gap. Having politicians choosing who gets accepted is just wrong, since they tend to be biased. Every student deserves to have an equal chance of getting that opportunity.
It's more than a summer job. It's the work experience that students usually applies for when they apply for the SEED program. Most of these students don't have work experience, which makes it hard for them to find actual work outside the program. We live in a time where employers are avoiding to pay for training in order to cut costs, as they keep asking for some mandatory work experience just to even apply for the job. That rules out most students with no work experience. The SEED program was supposed to bridge that gap. Having politicians choosing who gets accepted is just wrong, since they tend to be biased. Every student deserves to have an equal chance of getting that opportunity.
Johnny Horton
Reply to @Gabriel Boucher:
Then it’s a good thing, if it’s the only way these people will get a job, get experience, get a real job and get off the lovey wagon, it’s an excellent thing the mla got them thst summer job to kickstart their contributing to society. Rather than ripping society off,
Then it’s a good thing, if it’s the only way these people will get a job, get experience, get a real job and get off the lovey wagon, it’s an excellent thing the mla got them thst summer job to kickstart their contributing to society. Rather than ripping society off,
James Reed
Reply to @Gabriel Boucher:
The funding goes to the organization not the student - organizations have the money and students come to them... under the previous system, the students had a voucher and they went approached organizations
The funding goes to the organization not the student - organizations have the money and students come to them... under the previous system, the students had a voucher and they went approached organizations
David Amos
Reply to @Fred Brewer: Cry me a river