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http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/agent-orange-gagetown-eyewitness-1.4673641


Ex-soldier says he watched barrels of Agent Orange being buried at Gagetown base

Did the Canadian military actually track down all of its stocks of the dangerous defoliant?



338 Comments



Joseph Cluster 
Joseph Cluster
What really is disheartening is the Gov't/military at the time let the US military use our troops as lab rats in the testing of this chemical.


David Amos
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David Amos
@Joseph Cluster Methinks Murray Brewster should read paragraph 83 of my lawsuit against the Queen sometime N'esy Pas?


John Jacobs
John Jacobs
@David Amos
Don’t you mean ‘n'est-ce pas’?


David Amos
David Amos
@John Jacobs NOPE

Patrick Smyth
Patrick Smyth
@John Jacobs

A complainer extraordinaire and irreverent as they come who happily wears his ignorance and arrogance on his sleeve.

David Amos
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David Amos
@Patrick Smyth Methinks that is a perfect description of yourself It appears that you finally got something right for a change N'esy Pas?


Art Rowe
Art Rowe
@David Amos
Well you should, because your ""N'esy Pas"" certainly isn't French.

David Amos
Content disabled.
David Amos
@Art Rowe Methinks I never said it was however it certainly upsets English "Know It Alls" N'esy Pas?


Kathy Altenhofen
Kathy Altenhofen
@John Jacobs No, he doesn't. He loves showing his disrespect for all things French Canadian.

Kathy Altenhofen
Kathy Altenhofen
@David Amos No, it just shows your lack of maturity and complete insensitivity to Canada's French populace.



David Amos
Content disabled.
David Amos
@Kathy Altenhofen Not True Its French Men I love to tease. (Trust that I count quite a few French Maritimers as friends)

More importantly methinks everybody knows that I love the French Ladies dearly N'esy Pas?


Kathy Altenhofen
Kathy Altenhofen
@David Amos I'm sure all the French ladies carry 10 foot poles and bear spray on the off chance they see you approaching.


David Amos
Content disabled.
David Amos
@Kathy Altenhofen "it just shows your lack of maturity and complete insensitivity to Canada's French populace."

Would you say that to me in defense of your hero Trudeau the Younger or his political foe Mr Harper during the last election?

Methinks that you make a fine example of why many Maritimers (French and English and particularly Scottish ones) find German folks awful snobby N'esy Pas?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cFOKT6TlSE

David Amos
David Amos
@Joseph Cluster This the first portion of paragraph 83 of my lawsuit against the Queen

Federal Court File No: T-1557-15

83. The Plaintiff states that now that Canada is involved in more war in Iraq again it did not serve Canadian interests and reputation to allow Barry Winters to publish the following words three times over five years after he began his bragging:

January 13, 2015
This Is Just AS Relevant Now As When I wrote It During The Debate

December 8, 2014
Why Canada Stood Tall!

Friday, October 3, 2014
Little David Amos’ “True History Of War” Canadian Airstrikes And
Stupid Justin Trudeau

Canada’s and Canadians free ride is over. Canada can no longer hide
behind Amerka’s and NATO’s skirts.

When I was still in Canadian Forces then Prime Minister Jean Chretien actually committed the Canadian Army to deploy in the second campaign in Iraq, the Coalition of the Willing. This was against or contrary to the wisdom or advice of those of us Canadian officers that were involved in the initial planning phases of that operation. There were significant concern in our planning cell, and NDHQ about of the dearth of concern for operational guidance, direction, and forces for operations after the initial occupation of Iraq. At the “last minute” Prime Minister Chretien and the Liberal government changed its mind. The Canadian government told our amerkan cousins that we would not deploy combat troops for the Iraq campaign, but would deploy a Canadian Battle Group to Afghanistan, enabling our amerkan cousins to redeploy troops from there to Iraq.

David Amos
David Amos
@David Amos More

The PMO’s thinking that it was less costly to deploy Canadian Forces to Afghanistan than Iraq. But alas no one seems to remind the Liberals of Prime Minister Chretien’s then grossly incorrect assumption. Notwithstanding Jean Chretien’s incompetence and stupidity, the Canadian Army was heroic, professional, punched well above it’s weight, and the PPCLI Battle Group, is credited with “saving Afghanistan” during the Panjway campaign of 2006.

What Justin Trudeau and the Liberals don’t tell you now, is that then Liberal Prime Minister Jean Chretien committed, and deployed the Canadian army to Canada’s longest “war” without the advice, consent, support, or vote of the Canadian Parliament.

What David Amos and the rest of the ignorant, uneducated, and babbling chattering classes are too addled to understand is the deployment of less than 75 special operations troops, and what is known by planners as a “six pac cell” of fighter aircraft is NOT the same as a deployment of a Battle Group, nor a “war” make.

The Canadian Government or The Crown unlike our amerkan cousins have the “constitutional authority” to commit the Canadian nation to war. That has been recently clearly articulated to the Canadian public by constitutional scholar Phillippe Legasse. What Parliament can do is remove “confidence” in The Crown’s Government in a “vote of non-confidence.” That could not happen to the Chretien Government regarding deployment to Afghanistan, and it won’t happen in this instance with the conservative majority in The Commons regarding a limited Canadian deployment to the Middle East.


David Amos
David Amos
@David Amos More

President George Bush was quite correct after 911 and the terror attacks in New York; that the Taliban “occupied” and “failed state” Afghanistan was the source of logistical support, command and control, and training for the Al Quaeda war of terror against the world. The initial defeat, and removal from control of Afghanistan was vital and essential for the security and tranquility of the developed world. An ISIS “caliphate,” in the Middle East, no matter how small, is a clear and present danger to the entire world. This “occupied state,” or“failed state” will prosecute an unending Islamic inspired war of terror against not only the “western world,” but Arab states “moderate” or not, as well. The security, safety, and tranquility of Canada and Canadians are just at risk now with the emergence of an ISIS“caliphate” no matter how large or small, as it was with the Taliban and Al Quaeda “marriage” in Afghanistan.

David Amos
Content disabled.
David Amos
@David Amos More

One of the everlasting “legacies” of the “Trudeau the Elder’s dynasty was Canada and successive Liberal governments cowering behind the amerkan’s nuclear and conventional military shield, at the same time denigrating, insulting them, opposing them, and at the same time self-aggrandizing ourselves as “peace keepers,” and progenitors of “world peace.” Canada failed. The United States of Amerka, NATO, the G7 and or G20 will no longer permit that sort of sanctimonious behavior from Canada or its government any longer. And Prime Minister Stephen Harper, Foreign Minister John Baird , and Cabinet are fully cognizant of that reality. Even if some editorial boards, and pundits are not.

Justin, Trudeau “the younger” is reprising the time “honoured” liberal mantra, and tradition of expecting the amerkans or the rest of the world to do “the heavy lifting.” Justin Trudeau and his “butt buddy” David Amos are telling Canadians that we can guarantee our security and safety by expecting other nations to fight for us. That Canada can and should attempt to guarantee Canadians safety by providing “humanitarian aid” somewhere, and call a sitting US president a “war criminal.” This morning Australia announced they too, were sending tactical aircraft to eliminate the menace of an ISIS “caliphate.”

David Amos
Content disabled.
David Amos 
 @David Amos More

In one sense Prime Minister Harper is every bit the scoundrel Trudeau “the elder” and Jean ‘the crook” Chretien was. Just As Trudeau, and successive Liberal governments delighted in diminishing, marginalizing, under funding Canadian Forces, and sending Canadian military men and women to die with inadequate kit and modern equipment; so too is Prime Minister Stephen Harper. Canada’s F-18s are antiquated, poorly equipped, and ought to have been replaced five years ago. But alas, there won’t be single RCAF fighter jock that won’t go, or won’t want to go, to make Canada safe or safer.

My Grandfather served this country. My father served this country. My Uncle served this country. And I have served this country. Justin Trudeau has not served Canada in any way. Thomas Mulcair has not served this country in any way. Liberals and so called social democrats haven’t served this country in any way. David Amos, and other drooling fools have not served this great nation in any way. Yet these fools are more than prepared to ensure their, our safety to other nations, and then criticize them for doing so.

Canada must again, now, “do our bit” to guarantee our own security, and tranquility, but also that of the world. Canada has never before shirked its responsibility to its citizens and that of the world.

Prime Minister Harper will not permit this country to do so now

There is LOTS MORE



William Carver
William Carver
@David Amos

saving Afghanistan?

I suppose it depends on the metrics considered.


David Amos
Content disabled.
David Amos
@William Carver Methinks its rather hard to consider anything I posted after CBC deleted so many of my comments N'esy Pas?


Myron deNiverville 
Myron deNiverville
This CBC website could use a barrel of whitewash and someone that knows how to design a website that's easier to use.


David Amos
David Amos
@Myron deNiverville YUP


Joseph Cluster 
Joseph Cluster
Wife had an Uncle that received a compensation package for the effects of getting sprayed with this chemical. He was grateful for the monies received but chuckled at the actual amount in relation to the suffering he went through.


David Amos
David Amos
@Joseph Cluster Chuckles eh?

I remember dealing with this Agent Orange issue as I ran in the election of the 39th Parliament in the Fredericton riding while CBC laughed and ignored me as I was barred me from the debates even an all candidates debate they hosted on the UNB campus. Later I was ordered from UNB polling station under threat of arrest because they did not believe I was the guy whose name was on the ballot.

Methinks that at least your uncle is 20 grand ahead of me with any settlement with the crooks Perhaps that why he chuckled N'esy Pas?

Aaron Morris
Aaron Morris
@David Amos

Looks like someone has been smoking to much 2,4,5-T

Aaron Morris
Aaron Morris
@Aaron Morris

two*

;)


David Amos
Content disabled.
David Amos
@Aaron Morris Methinks that we all know that you brag too much N'esy Pas?


Robbie Adams 
Robbie Adams
"""Agent Orange was sprayed at CFB Gagetown in 1966 and 1967 by the U.S. military, with permission from Canada."""

Pollute our country. No bases in the US where they could have tested the stuff. Maybe the yanks should be paying for all of this


David Amos
Content disabled.
David Amos
@Robbie Adams Methinks you should ask Monsanto what they thinks of your idea N'esy Pas?

  
Mike Trout
Jason Martin
The government fought veterans seeking benefits for illness from exposure to agent Orange for decades. They refused to admit culpability. Sound familiar?

February 1, 2018
Justin Trudeau, "Because veterans are asking for more than the government can give right now".

One and done in 2019.


Mike Trout
Mike Trout
@Jason Martin

This says it all about the "pm" Justin and his Liberal "government".

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/justin-trudeau-town-hall-edmonton-1.4515822

ABTL 2019

David Amos
David Amos
@Mike Trout Anyone believe this?

"I have pledged, and I did pledge and I will continue to pledge that I will do right by you," Trudeau said. "The changes that we've made to our support for veterans are based around recognizing where we went wrong before."

Survey Says?


carol e. kudla 
carol e. kudla
our not so clean past! we have nothing to brag about with any of our governments' behaviour. now or then


Curtis Harvey
Curtis Harvey
@carol e. kudla - When it comes right down to it the liberals have been far, more despicable in their actions toward our veterans and soldiers as a whole than the Conservatives and the Conservatives treated them very badly indeed.

David Amos
David Amos
@Curtis Harvey Methinks the Conservatives were far worse because they are the ones who put our Armed Forces in harms way in 2006 for no good reason whatsoever N'esy Pas?


  
Michael Larsne
James Watson
"We're from the Government and we're here to help you"?

Scariest words you are ever gong to hear!


David Amos
David Amos
@James Watson Every time a politician or bureaucrat say the words "How can I help you?" I hang up the phone

Michael Larsne
Michael Larsne
@David Amos right up there with "Believe me ..."


Michael Larsne 
Stephen McIntyre
"I would speculate that the government would have taken it more seriously if he had come forward earlier"

Ha! I speculate that the government would have buried his testimony deeper than the barrels. This man, the messenger, is not the problem.


David Amos
David Amos
@Stephen McIntyre Methinks this revelation is way past too late for most of the old veterans Money ain't much good to the dead and dying and the crooks who ordered the barrels hidden are no doubt long gone as well N'esy Pas?



Scott Wilson 
Scott Wilson
Trump uses it to color his hair.


David Amos
Content disabled.
David Amos
@Karin Bougie "Just like the guy on here making this about Trudeau, your Trump obsession is just as bad."

Methinks because of your comment I will singing Stormy Monday all day maybe some other folks will join in N'esy Pas?

David Amos
Content disabled.
David Amos
@David Amos Why on earth would CBC block that comment?

  
Matthew Smith
Matthew Smith
C'mon! without Agent Orange we wouldn't have had the money to develop Round-Up...same company Monsanto/Dow...


Matthew Smith
Matthew Smith
@Richard Nichols Do they not teach it in school any longer???

David Amos
David Amos
@Matthew Smith YUP


Matthew Smith 
Michael G. L. Geraldson
I wouldn't be at all surprised if they and many other dangerous substances were buried there and around the rest of the country. Not that I'm excusing it, but those with different times with a different mindset. I also remember planes flying overhead in the summer and fogging entire towns with insecticides, something nobody would tolerate today.


David Amos
David Amos
@Michael G. L. Geraldson Methinks they are spraying the same stuff today all over the province It just has a different name tis all N'esy Pas?

  
Gemma Schofield
Glen robert
What about all the chemicals left in bases in the far north?


Jean St. Amour
Jean St. Amour
@Glen robert

Oh the thousands of liters of PCB's that the Americans left behind after they abandoned all their radar stations that we let them build in Canada?

David Amos
David Amos
@Jean St. Amour Good point
  

Gemma Schofield
John Sollows
Back in the late '60's/early '70's there was an American proposal to build the world's largest power source (12,000 MW) on a small island in SW Nova Scotia. Nuclear, of course.

Local lobster fishermen expressed concern about how it might affect their livelihood, and there were a few other questions raised. Reassuring "No evidences.." abounded.

Then a local author said, "Why aren't they building it on their side of the water?"

And there has been dead silence ... ever since.

Thank you, Hattie Perry. R.I.P.


David Amos
David Amos
@John Sollows Have you read NAFTA or FATCA?


Murray Darren 
Murray Darren
Here we go again folks Blame it on Harper lol


Kathy Altenhofen
Kathy Altenhofen
@Murray Darren Another whiny rightie....


David Amos
David Amos
@Kathy Altenhofen "Another whiny rightie...."

Methinks you are the polar opposite Nesy Pas?

Kathy Altenhofen 
John Sollows
It would be nice to know what's buried at various other former American operations.

There's a large, fenced-in area not far from a former American base in Baccaro. N.S., for instance.

Don't know why it's fenced in. Maybe CBC could investigate...


David Amos
David Amos
@John Sollows Good luck with that one.


Ex-soldier says he watched barrels of Agent Orange being buried at Gagetown base

Did the Canadian military actually track down all of its stocks of the dangerous defoliant?


Former military police officer Al White says he watched barrels of Agent Orange being buried at CFB Gagetown in 1985. (CBC News)

It is a 33-year-old mystery that has gnawed at retired sergeant Al White's conscience.

The now-former military police officer told CBC News that, before sunrise on a clear morning in the late spring of 1985, he was ordered to escort a Department of National Defence flatbed truck along an empty road at CFB Gagetown in New Brunswick. The journey took just minutes and ended in shadows just off the road, where an excavator had dug a wide, fresh pit in the spongy soil.

On the flatbed were over 40 full or semi-full barrels in various conditions. Some were solid, others were dented, rusted or in various states of decay. Almost all of them were wrapped with an orange stripe.

"At the time, I didn't think much of it," White told CBC News. "I just did the task and it wasn't until some time later that it really, really hit home to me."

Very few words were exchanged between White, the truck driver and the operator of the excavator. The barrels were dumped into the pit and covered over.

What Al White said he witnessed that morning three decades back was the burial of leftover Agent Orange, the notorious chemical defoliant linked to various types of cancer that was used in secret spraying experiments by the U.S. at the Gagetown military base in New Brunswick — something which would blow up into a major public policy issue 20 years later.


An eyewitness account


​White said he was told at the time what the barrels contained. Experts and activists who have followed the case — and who fought the federal government for compensation for military personnel and civilians affected by defoliant spraying at Gagetown — said White's statement is the first eyewitness account they've heard of the base disposing of stocks of Agent Orange.

"This is quite an interesting development from my perspective," said Wayne Dwernychuk, a expert who spent over 15 years studying Agent Orange contamination and its effects on combatants during the war in Vietnam.

Much of the public controversy in New Brunswick over a dozen years ago related to the secret spraying program. Agent Orange was sprayed at CFB Gagetown in 1966 and 1967 by the U.S. military, with permission from Canada.

It's now known that exposure can lead to skin disorders, liver problems and certain types of cancers.

The Canadian government set aside almost $100 million in 2007 for Canadians harmed by defoliants at the base. In 2011, Ottawa also reversed a decision to reject compensation for dozens of soldiers and their families exposed to the defoliant who later became ill.

What makes White's account remarkable, Dwernychuk said, is that it's the first hint of an answer to a nagging question about the Gagetown spraying program: do we know what happened to all of the leftover defoliant?


Al White in uniform in the mid-1980s. "I just felt ... enough about hiding stuff. Bring it out into the public." (Submitted photo)
There are references to disposal in some of the public reports on the program — in both an independent engineering report and the public health study conducted by Dr. Dennis Furlong, which cites one instance of empty barrels being dug up near what is known as the Shirley Road dump.
White said that is roughly the area where he witnessed the burial.

There are, however, significant discrepancies between the Department of National Defence's timeline and White's account of the burial.

At least 10 sites on the base were the subject of study — and the department said it found barrels at only one.

White said he is willing to show defence officials where he saw the barrels buried; CBC News asked to accompany him. National Defence refused to allow access to the base and a spokesman said the issue has been studied exhaustively.
"DND/CAF has done extensive research into the use and testing of herbicides at CFB Gagetown and has left no stone unturned," said Daniel LeBouthillier.

LeBouthillier pointed to independent research conducted by Jacques Whitford Engineering and the community outreach the department did between 2005 and 2007.

"The Department of National Defence has been open and transparent about its work regarding this file and the science indicates that the base is safe today."

LeBouthillier did, however, invite White to contact the department directly.

Dwernychuk said the federal government needs to investigate further.

"It behooves whoever is in charge of the area, the ministry of defence, to find out what is actually in that particular region, particularly if there is a witness to the burying," he said.

The department claims it conducted remediation at the site where it found barrels. Dwernychuk said it should still look at taking deep core samples at that site, given that a brook runs through the area.

Rumours of buried toxins


Both he and Carol Brown Parker, of the Agent Orange Association of Canada — which still lobbies for more disclosure on the Agent Orange program and its aftermath — said they are amazed that White kept silent all these years.

The rumour that barrels of the defoliant had been secretly buried on the base has been rife in nearby communities for decades.

"I absolutely believe Al," said Brown-Parker, who recalled hearing as a child her teachers talking about the late night transport of barrels through the area. "It was well known they did that, but everybody kept quiet."

White said he recently lost three friends — all former soldiers — to cancer. They all suffered lingering, painful deaths, he said.

"I just felt ... enough about hiding stuff. Bring it out into the public that this did occur," White said. "Perhaps I should have brought it forth years ago after I was released from the military and I didn't, and I'm probably wrong for not doing that."

He said he would like clear, definitive answers from National Defence about the site "so that people can be at rest."

Dwernychuk said it's a bitter disappointment to hear now about what White said he saw decades past, given that he didn't come forward when the battle for recognition and federal compensation for those exposed to Agent Orange at Gagetown was being fought a dozen years ago.

"I would speculate that the government would have taken it more seriously if he had come forward earlier," he said.

"There is always going to be the question of, 'Why did you wait so long?'"

About the Author


Murray Brewster
Defence and security
Murray Brewster is senior defence writer for CBC News, based in Ottawa. He has covered the Canadian military and foreign policy from Parliament Hill for over a decade. Among other assignments, he spent a total of 15 months on the ground covering the Afghan war for The Canadian Press. Prior to that, he covered defence issues and politics for CP in Nova Scotia for 11 years and was bureau chief for Standard Broadcast News in Ottawa.

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