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David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
Replying to @DavidRayAmos @alllibertynews and 49 others
Methinks the lawyers made out like bandits N'esy Pas?
https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2019/08/judge-wont-throw-out-tight-saint-john.html
#cdnpoli#nbpoli
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/saint-john-harbour-election-court-challenge-1.5257385
CBC's Journalistic Standards and Practices
Marguerite Deschamps
David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
Replying to @DavidRayAmos @alllibertynews and 49 others
Methinks the lawyers made out like bandits N'esy Pas?
https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2019/08/judge-wont-throw-out-tight-saint-john.html
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/saint-john-harbour-election-court-challenge-1.5257385
Judge won't throw out tight Saint John Harbour election result
Progressive Conservative Barry Ogden had argued for new election after 10-vote loss to Liberal
Progressive Conservative Barry Ogden, left, who lost by 10 votes to Gerry Lowe last September, has lost his bid to have the results set aside. (CBC)
A judge has rejecting setting aside the election result last September in the provincial riding of Saint John Harbour.
Court of Queen's Bench Justice Hugh McLellan dismissed the case Friday morning, weeks after hearing final arguments by both sides.
Progressive Conservative candidate Barry Ogden had challenged his 10-vote loss to Liberal Gerry Lowe in the Sept. 24 election that left neither party with a majority in the legislature.
Ogden had asked the court to throw out the results and order a new election, alleging 71 instances of voting irregularities.
In his 48-page ruling, McLellan wrote that after considering the limited evidence, it was his opinion Ogden had not met the burden to establish that 28 people voted when they were not entitled to.
But McLellan said the magic number test was not a substitute for the careful consideration of whether a specific number of rejected votes would "produce a substantial effect upon the election."
As a result, McLellan said, it was his opinion that to overturn the election results the number of rejected votes would have to be a lot greater than the 10-vote margin of victory.
In a statement, Lowe said he was pleased with the decision and hoped "for the sake of the people of Saint John Harbour we can finally put this matter to rest."
The MLA said his priority since being sworn in after the election "has been to represent the interests of the people of my riding, and that will continue to be my priority moving forward. That's the job I was elected to do."
Ogden's lawyer, Kelly VanBuskirk, said he is still reviewing the decision and has not had a chance to discuss it with his client.
Ogden said he had seen Lowe and congratulated him.
Later in the day, Ogden said in a statement that he wasn't happy with the outcome, but he was happy "we were able to shine the light on very serious problems with our voting system."
After thanking people for their support, Ogden said he believes as a result of the court case "we will see improvements to our electoral system."
When asked if there would be an appeal, VanBuskirk said they'd have to think about.
"This remains a case that casts light on what every Saint John Harbour resident should be concerned about, but what every New Brunswicker and every Canadian should be concerned about."
Chief electoral officer Kim Poffenroth said Elections New Brunswick respects the ruling but would offer no other comment.
"We must wait until the applicant to this application determines if they will pursue their right of appeal."
Court of Queen's Bench Justice Hugh McLellan dismissed the case Friday morning, weeks after hearing final arguments by both sides.
Progressive Conservative candidate Barry Ogden had challenged his 10-vote loss to Liberal Gerry Lowe in the Sept. 24 election that left neither party with a majority in the legislature.
Ogden had asked the court to throw out the results and order a new election, alleging 71 instances of voting irregularities.
Lowe, left, the Saint John Harbour MLA, reads over the judgment with his lawyer Thomas O’Neil. (Connell Smith/CBC)
The case took months to hear as lawyers for both sides, along with Elections New Brunswick, presented their arguments.In his 48-page ruling, McLellan wrote that after considering the limited evidence, it was his opinion Ogden had not met the burden to establish that 28 people voted when they were not entitled to.
In what he called the magic number test, the judge said he disallowed nine votes — eight by non-residents of Saint John Harbour and one by a person who had voted twice.
But McLellan said the magic number test was not a substitute for the careful consideration of whether a specific number of rejected votes would "produce a substantial effect upon the election."
As a result, McLellan said, it was his opinion that to overturn the election results the number of rejected votes would have to be a lot greater than the 10-vote margin of victory.
MLA wants it over
In a statement, Lowe said he was pleased with the decision and hoped "for the sake of the people of Saint John Harbour we can finally put this matter to rest."
The MLA said his priority since being sworn in after the election "has been to represent the interests of the people of my riding, and that will continue to be my priority moving forward. That's the job I was elected to do."
Ogden's lawyer, Kelly VanBuskirk, said he is still reviewing the decision and has not had a chance to discuss it with his client.
Ogden said he had seen Lowe and congratulated him.
Case revealed problems
Later in the day, Ogden said in a statement that he wasn't happy with the outcome, but he was happy "we were able to shine the light on very serious problems with our voting system."
After thanking people for their support, Ogden said he believes as a result of the court case "we will see improvements to our electoral system."
When asked if there would be an appeal, VanBuskirk said they'd have to think about.
"This remains a case that casts light on what every Saint John Harbour resident should be concerned about, but what every New Brunswicker and every Canadian should be concerned about."
Chief electoral officer Kim Poffenroth said Elections New Brunswick respects the ruling but would offer no other comment.
"We must wait until the applicant to this application determines if they will pursue their right of appeal."
44 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.
David R. Amos
Methinks the lawyers made out like bandits N'esy Pas?
David R. Amos
Methinks all the politicians know why I contacted the lawyers involved before Justice Hugh McLellan (Same last name as Landslide Annie the lawyer who is not advising Mr Prime Minister Trudeau The Younger) finally reached his decision N'esy Pas?
Marguerite Deschamps
Lynda Dykeman
Barry Ogden has worked very hard in this city to help it have some heart. More so than most are aware or grateful for. I am glad he challenged this. I am also glad they can both move on. It is not about either party. It is about honest votes and not taking advantage of the voting public.
David R Amos
Reply to @Lynda Dykeman: Dream on
Lynda Dykeman
@ David R Amos...I will thanks.
David R Amos
Reply to @Lynda Dykeman: Of that I am certain
Dianne MacPherson
If there was anything positive coming
out of this issue, we can say that Election NB
learned s
out of this issue, we can say that Election NB
learned s
Dianne MacPherson
Reply to @Dianne MacPherson:
some valuable lessons in choosing/teaching
workers how the process SHOULD work !!!!
some valuable lessons in choosing/teaching
workers how the process SHOULD work !!!!
David R Amos
Reply to @Dianne MacPherson: YUP
John O'Brien
Another rather obviously Liberal judge.
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @John O'Brien: this justice was appointed by the Conservatives. Speak about something you know about.
David R Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Methinks you know this N'esy Pas?
"We must wait until the applicant to this application determines if they will pursue their right of appeal."
"We must wait until the applicant to this application determines if they will pursue their right of appeal."
Lou Bell
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Marc ? Uerite ? Or Al Clark ?
Dan Lee
Reply to @Lou Bell
HMMM...i thought i was Marc................
HMMM...i thought i was Marc................
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @John O'Brien and Lou DumbBell: Justice McLellan is a 1990 CONservative appointment under Brian Mulroney.
David R Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Methinks everybody knows why I am laughing at your self righteous indignation N'esy Pas?
David R Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Has the cat got your tongue?
Gary MacKay
It has taken 11 months less a day to get this decision. Like it or not there IMO is a serious problem with the NB voting system if there were in fact 9 votes that the Judge disallowed. It does not bode well for future elections and the trust of the public.
Elections NB needs a shaking for the chaff to fall out and work hard to get people to vote in a trust worthy system. We need more than a small margin of people voting to decide who leads.
Elections NB needs a shaking for the chaff to fall out and work hard to get people to vote in a trust worthy system. We need more than a small margin of people voting to decide who leads.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Gary MacKay: Methinks it is a small wonder that so many folks don't bother to vote N'esy Pas?
Laurie Clark
Reply to @David R. Amos: You are such a phony! In the 30 years I lived in SE New Brunswick, never once did I ever hear any Acadian say N'esy pas! Oh that includes my Acadian son!
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Laurie Clark: David thinks he's an authority in the Chiac language. As a matter of fact, he thinks he's an authority on everything, more particularly in law.
Dan Lee
Reply to @Laurie Clark
Ya pas troub la
Ya pas troub la
David R. Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Methinks I should not thank you for your support N'esy Pas?
David R. Amos
Reply to @Laurie Clark: Methinks you need to get out more N'esy Pas?
Laurie Clark
Reply to @Dan Lee: Dan Lee? You replied for David Amos? Same person?
David R. Amos
Reply to @Laurie Clark: You know who I am
David R. Amos
Reply to @Laurie Clark: Google Fundy Royal Debate
Mac Isaac
Finally!! But I'm willing to bet that this isn't the end of it. My bet is that Neither Ogden nor the PCs will ever to agree that their version of what transpired during the election process in Saint John isn't correct. They lost but that simply ain't enough. That it WAS a close result also isn't enough. That they will have another kick at the can...ditto! Once this sort of paranoia gets a hold of one of these people, nothing....NOTHING will ever dissuade them that they didn't see what they think they saw. And now for some contrariwise comments:...
Donald Gallant
Reply to @Mac Isaac:
Good explanation.
But it applies more to Trudeau.
Good explanation.
But it applies more to Trudeau.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Mac Isaac: Methinks the PANB won't support Mr Higgs for much longer so they will have another kick at the can soon N'esy Pas?
Natalie Pugh
Reply to @Mac Isaac: We can all say the same about Gallant who refused to go away gracefully and admit defeat!
Robert Brannen
Reply to @Natalie Pugh: Is it really that easy to totally dismiss the conventions of Parliamentary Democracy?
Mac Isaac
Reply to @Natalie Pugh: I'll try my best, without any rancour, to describe for you how our democracy works. In an election the party with the most number of seats, in theory, might win IF that party has the majority of seats contested in the election. IF any single party doesn't win a majority of seats, the governing party, IF they win the confidence of the other parties with elected members, can and will form government even IF another party has more seats. THIS is what happened after our last election. Premier Gallant's Liberals WAS the governing party before the election and has every right under our system of government to seek the confidence of the other parties. When he couldn't gain the confidence of either or both the Greens and Alliance, he resigned and made way for Premier Higgs. What Premier Gallant did was perfectly in keeping with Westminster rules. It wasn't that he was being ungraceful or willing to admit defeat against unsurmountable odds (they were!), he was simply following the rules of Parliament passed down from the days of Magna Carta>
Marguerite Deschamps
Reply to @Mac Isaac: it's very simple rule, but very complicated for the simple minded.
David R. Amos
Reply to @Marguerite Deschamps: Methinks that is exactly your problem N'esy Pas?
David R. Amos
Reply to @Mac Isaac: Yea Right
That was Federal ; we are more 'civilized' in NB !!!!!
NOT for me......I seldom vote for the
same Party twice in a row........
especially today.
My vote is based on how well things went
in the four years of their rule !!!!!