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David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
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https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/saint-john-financial-budget-2019-1.4950189
Comments
David Amos
David Amos
David Amos
David Amos
David Raymond Amos
Jim Joe Jackson
Craig O'Donnell
Barry Odonnell
cheryl wright
Colin Seeley
Bo Wilson
Matt Steele
Up to $3.5 billion worth of property in New Brunswick enjoys some kind of special tax treatment, a tradition of concessions that has cost the province an estimated $380 million, plus interest, over nearly four decades, a CBC News investigation shows.
The investigation into special tax deals was launched after Premier Brian Gallant challenged the public during a call-in radio show to help him identify deals that were "not equitable."
Tax exemptions and discounts explored by the CBC include multimillion dollar breaks on forest properties, farmland, petroleum sites and other facilities. In some cases, the tax breaks have stayed in place long after their original purpose became irrelevant.
This year, the tax breaks will cost the province an estimated $24 million.
That amount includes a seldom-mentioned $6.5 million provincial property tax exemption for Irving Oil's Canaport LNG properties.
CBC News has confirmed the Gallant government is allowing that exemption to continue even after it fully repeals a Saint John municipal property tax deal at the same site.
"The repealing of the LNG Act has no effect on the provincial property tax exemption," Nichole Bowman, a spokeswoman for Service New Brunswick, said in an email.
"The LNG facility will still be eligible for exemption of provincial tax revenue."
The other tax deals looked at by CBC News include:
The tax deals are so deeply rooted in the politics of New Brunswick that none were seriously challenged during the Gallant government's strategic review of spending last year that was meant to place all government programs under a microscope.
Finance Minister Cathy Rogers said it was too big a task, and her department has recently begun looking at all special government tax deals.
"We decided we needed to do a more comprehensive review," she said.
"We are looking at this [now]."
"I expect there would be a pretty significant uproar."
Devised in 1978, the program allows farm owners to defer provincial property tax on land and farm buildings for 15 years, at which point, if the land is still in agricultural use, the debt is forgiven.
A total of $129.9 million in farmland property tax has gone uncollected by the province since the program began.
This year, hundreds of agricultural businesses used it to avoid paying provincial tax on nearly $600 million worth of property including the multi-billion-dollar Florenceville company, McCain Foods, which sheltered at least $11 million of its farmland and buildings from taxes inside the program.
Adjusted for inflation, taxes on timberland in New Brunswick are now less than half what they were in 1966, following a series of assessment freezes over 50 years, including the last 23 years in a row.
For tax purposes, forest properties are deemed to be worth $100 per hectare and have been since 1994 even though the same properties sell on the open market for several times that.
It produces heavily discounted property tax bills, and even some who benefit from it, like Gray Rapids Timber co owner Carl Faulkner wonder if it's too generous.
"I think about that all the time and I really can't come up with the right answer," he said. "I honestly can't."
Last December, Gray Rapids partly sold and partly donated 853 hectares it owned along the Bartholomew River near Blackville to the Nature Conservancy of Canada.
The land was assessed by the province — and taxed — as being worth $85,300. The Nature Conservancy had it independently appraised before the sale for $950,000.
As a sign of how stubborn tax deals can be to dislodge once granted, CBC News also looked at a 1980 tax exemption granted on crude oil storage tanks and pipelines attached to the Irving Oil refinery.
It was awarded largely to help the company survive a worldwide oil crisis that began in 1979, but the arrangement was left undisturbed after the troubles resolved themselves in the mid-1980s.
Originally valued at between $400,000 and $500,000, the province will not say exactly what the crude oil tank and pipeline exemption is worth now, only to acknowledge it is "substantially more" than in 1980.
Brideau would like to see the entire property tax system reviewed, deals and all.
"When something has been around for a long time it tends to stay the same," he said.
"I think we have to challenge the existing system."
Edited by Connie Camp
Packaged by Daniel McHardie
Video by Paul Hantiuk and Earl CabuhatCBC's Journalistic Standards and Practices|
David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
Methinks Mr Higgs and the Irving Clan would understand why I would lay odds that Mayor Don Darling does not have the first clue as to why I ran in Saint John Harbour in 2006 N'esy Pas?
https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2018/12/not-sustainable-saint-john-gets-budget.html
https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2018/12/not-sustainable-saint-john-gets-budget.html
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/saint-john-financial-budget-2019-1.4950189
'Not sustainable': Saint John gets budget approval, but it comes with a warning
Comments
David Amos
Surprise Surprise Surprise
David Amos
"Saint John councillors are hoping the province will lift some property tax exemptions for industries like the Irving Oil refinery"
Survey Says???
Survey Says???
David Amos
Methinks Mr Higgs and his buddies in the Irving Clan would understand why I would lay odds that Mayor Don Darling does not have the first clue as to why I ran in Saint John Harbour in 2006 against Ed Doherty but the old postman Gerry Lowe and his pal Frank McKenna certainly do N'esy Pas?
David Amos
Deja Vu from 2 years ago
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/new-brunswick-historic-tax-concessions-1.3887534
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/new-brunswick-historic-tax-concessions-1.3887534
David Raymond Amos
If anyone wishes to recall the Liebranos hired my Father, Max Amos to be "Supervisor of Taxation" for the Province of New Brunswick in 1967 until his took sick and died of cancer in the early eighties. My Father was quite a little firecracker and he did not back up from a fight with any big bully if he was certain he was on the right side of the matter.
I remember my Father talking of many battles with the Irving Empire about paying their fair of taxation in a timely fashion. That said does CBC or anyone even recall why his wild child namely me did not hesitate to sue three Secret Agents of the Yankee IRS in 2002? Better yet how about why I preparing a law suit against their cohorts Revenue Canada? Here is one word a hint about one issue that Trump, Obama and Prime Minister Trudeau "The Younger" are well aware od aware
Lets just say that apple does not fall too far from the tree N'esy Pas Mr Jones?
I remember my Father talking of many battles with the Irving Empire about paying their fair of taxation in a timely fashion. That said does CBC or anyone even recall why his wild child namely me did not hesitate to sue three Secret Agents of the Yankee IRS in 2002? Better yet how about why I preparing a law suit against their cohorts Revenue Canada? Here is one word a hint about one issue that Trump, Obama and Prime Minister Trudeau "The Younger" are well aware od aware
Lets just say that apple does not fall too far from the tree N'esy Pas Mr Jones?
David Raymond Amos
@David Raymond Amos FYI That one word is FATCA
Jim Joe Jackson
The City of Saint John deals with commuters from Rothesay and Quispamsis who don't want to live in Saint John but are happy to use its services. SJ has the country's largest refinery polluting and paying little in taxes. SJ has an aging infrastructure with little provincial help. The city is in decline because those that can pay, don't want too.
daryl doucette
@Jim Joe Jackson "Don't want to".....well I " don't want to" either. BUT, if I " Don't", this fella called a " sheriff" will show up at my door and take my house. So, OBVIOUSLY the solution is to make EVERYONE pay their fair share of taxes, be it a beat up mini home in a trailer park, or a billion dollar oil refinery assessed at 98 million.
David Amos
@daryl doucette Methinks the Irving Clan must recall my Father sending the Sheriff to put a chain on the gates of the refinery in order to make ol KC pay his property taxes N'esy Pas?
Craig O'Donnell
Inevitably, there's a post mentioning some fault should be attributed to people living outside the city who may commute their to shop or work This happens every time there is talk about SJ's financial situation. They really should be focussing on the inept performance of SJ city council over many years that has put them where they are.
Are we to believe that every large municipality does not have a suburbian population that want to raise their families outside the city? Are we to believe that this same suburbia is not already spending tons of money in Saint John businesses? And are there any of these large municipalities that force outsiders to pay a "user tax" to prop up a poorly governed city?
Nope, blaming your problems on Quispamsis and Rothesay residents rather than yourselves is just asinine.
Are we to believe that every large municipality does not have a suburbian population that want to raise their families outside the city? Are we to believe that this same suburbia is not already spending tons of money in Saint John businesses? And are there any of these large municipalities that force outsiders to pay a "user tax" to prop up a poorly governed city?
Nope, blaming your problems on Quispamsis and Rothesay residents rather than yourselves is just asinine.
David Amos
@Craig O'Donnell "blaming your problems on Quispamsis and Rothesay residents rather than yourselves is just asinine"
YUP
YUP
Douglas James
@Craig O'Donnell That would be considered 'negative' news by Deputy Mayor Shirley McAlary Craig. We mustn't go down that path. Politicians are never to blame for anything but they sure like to take the credit when things go right.
Content disabled.
David Amos
@Douglas James "That would be considered 'negative' news by Deputy Mayor Shirley McAlary Craig"
Methinks whereas you have worked for CBC and CNN you may enjoy my one comment on the topic of taxation not long before the Green Party watched my ID be stricken from this website for their benefit N'esy Pas?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/new-brunswick-historic-tax-concessions-1.3887534
Methinks whereas you have worked for CBC and CNN you may enjoy my one comment on the topic of taxation not long before the Green Party watched my ID be stricken from this website for their benefit N'esy Pas?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/new-brunswick-historic-tax-concessions-1.3887534
Barry Odonnell
The next time some city union threatens to go on strike because they "deserve more money" remember that sooner or later you are gonna have to pay the piper.
Harold Benson
@Barry Odonnell Should think about that even more when YOU give YOURSELF a raise (as council did), and you think you deserve it. Unions ain't the problem.
David Amos
@Harold Benson Methinks Sam is pretty upset too N'esy Pas?
cheryl wright
well its a good thing the people in charge voted to give themselves a raise
David Amos
@cheryl wright Methinks many a true word is said in jest N'esy Pas?
Colin Seeley
Moved to Quispam years ago to an area that had a country feel but still in the suburb .
Saint John was very good for me.
But I made the switch and have never regretted it. When the time comes I will get a small apartment .
Saint John needs revenues badly. So does NB .
I pay a Hotel Room tax wherever I go.
I pay highway tolls as well.
London England has a “ Congestion Tax “.
There there are Industrial issues that I do not understand.
What are you waiting for Saint John.
This is solvable.
Saint John was very good for me.
But I made the switch and have never regretted it. When the time comes I will get a small apartment .
Saint John needs revenues badly. So does NB .
I pay a Hotel Room tax wherever I go.
I pay highway tolls as well.
London England has a “ Congestion Tax “.
There there are Industrial issues that I do not understand.
What are you waiting for Saint John.
This is solvable.
David Amos
@Colin Seeley "Moved to Quispam years ago"
Methinks you did not vote for me in 2015 N'esy Pas?
Methinks you did not vote for me in 2015 N'esy Pas?
Bo Wilson
The problem is industry (Irving) has not been paying their fair share of property taxes for years. When the province excludes machinery and equipment as part of the property tax assessment this is bizarre to say the least. Irving continues to upgrade the refinery and pulp mill with little or no increase in property taxes. Upgrade your home and see what happens to your property tax assessment. This is why people have moved outside the city. City council also has to take their fair share of responsibility for this mess. They continue to give Irving long-term fixed rates on water and electricity, something not afforded to individual home owners. The city of Saint John is broke and the province is close behind.
We will now find out if Higgs was elected to represent the citizens or if he is still working for his former employer.
We will now find out if Higgs was elected to represent the citizens or if he is still working for his former employer.
David Amos
@Bo Wilson Oh So True Sir
Matt Steele
The city could save big money if they would bring in a partial volunteer fire department like many other communities have , but the city refuses to do it . Saint John has been mismanaged for years to the point where folks had to vote with their feet , and move out of the city altogether in order to avoid crushing property taxes . When you see city workers who collect big salaries moving out of the city , then you know there is a major problem . Nothing will change as the City of Saint John falls farther and farther behind each year
David Amos
@Matt Steele "The city could save big money if they would bring in a partial volunteer fire department like many other communities have , but the city refuses to do it"
Methinks you can thank your union buddies for that not the city N'esy Pas?
Methinks you can thank your union buddies for that not the city N'esy Pas?
Lewis Taylor
@David Amos
Methinks you don't contribute much to the discussion N'esy Pas?
Methinks you don't contribute much to the discussion N'esy Pas?
David Amos
@Lewis Taylor Methinks I say a lot more than you particularly after running for public office 6 times and suing the Crown N'esy Pas?
'Not sustainable': Saint John gets budget approval, but it comes with a warning
The city's tax base is now in 3rd place behind Moncton and Fredericton
Saint John council approved its operating budget for 2019 with stern warnings the municipality could soon be in deep financial trouble.
The $160-million budget holds the tax rate at $1.78 — where it's been for several years.
Under the tax rate a home assessed at $200,000 would carry a tax bill of $3,750 next year.
But councillors heard that without an emergency funding package approved last year by the provincial government, the city's tax rate would have to increase more than ten cents to maintain service and employment levels where they are now.
"This budget is not sustainable," said Kevin Fudge, the city's finance commissioner. "[The] status quo business model is not an option."
The special funding package from the province amounts to $7.1 million in 2019, but runs out at the end of 2020.
The city assessment base grew by one per cent in 2018, but has averaged less than a per cent annually over several years — moving from the centre with the highest assessment base in the province in the year 2000 to third place today. That's 17 per cent behind Moncton and five per cent behind Fredericton.
The city has been asking the province for municipal tax reform, including removal of partial tax exemptions for major industries like the Irving Oil refinery.
According to Mayor Don Darling, the city has been assured by the Blaine Higgs government that some reforms are on the way.
Councillors met privately Monday with two local members of Higgs's cabinet, including Social Development Minister Dorothy Shephard and Post-Secondary Education, Training and Labour Minister Trevor Holder, along with PC MLA, Glen Savoie, who represents Saint John East.
"Excellent discussion today, great first meeting," Darling said afterward. "We talked about a range of items including municipal reform, which they were very supportive of."
The $160-million 2019 budget is $4.9 million higher than this year's budget.
It allocates $24.6 million for fire services and $26 million for police.
Meanwhile, public transit will receive $7.9 million.
The city has a permanent staff of 627 people and no major cuts to services have been proposed.
CBC's Journalistic Standards and PracticesThe $160-million budget holds the tax rate at $1.78 — where it's been for several years.
Under the tax rate a home assessed at $200,000 would carry a tax bill of $3,750 next year.
But councillors heard that without an emergency funding package approved last year by the provincial government, the city's tax rate would have to increase more than ten cents to maintain service and employment levels where they are now.
"This budget is not sustainable," said Kevin Fudge, the city's finance commissioner. "[The] status quo business model is not an option."
- Saint John's proposed $160M budget inspires confidence and jitters
- 'It's very upsetting': Saint John officials disappointed with new NBM in jeopardy
- New year to bring in service cuts as Saint John's budget shrinks
The special funding package from the province amounts to $7.1 million in 2019, but runs out at the end of 2020.
The city has been asking the province for municipal tax reform, including removal of partial tax exemptions for major industries like the Irving Oil refinery.
According to Mayor Don Darling, the city has been assured by the Blaine Higgs government that some reforms are on the way.
Meetings with government
Councillors met privately Monday with two local members of Higgs's cabinet, including Social Development Minister Dorothy Shephard and Post-Secondary Education, Training and Labour Minister Trevor Holder, along with PC MLA, Glen Savoie, who represents Saint John East.
"Excellent discussion today, great first meeting," Darling said afterward. "We talked about a range of items including municipal reform, which they were very supportive of."
The $160-million 2019 budget is $4.9 million higher than this year's budget.
It allocates $24.6 million for fire services and $26 million for police.
Meanwhile, public transit will receive $7.9 million.
The city has a permanent staff of 627 people and no major cuts to services have been proposed.
Property tax concessions have cost N.B. nearly $380M over 40 years
CBC News investigation examined tax deals that lighten the tax load for certain businesses
Up to $3.5 billion worth of property in New Brunswick enjoys some kind of special tax treatment, a tradition of concessions that has cost the province an estimated $380 million, plus interest, over nearly four decades, a CBC News investigation shows.
The investigation into special tax deals was launched after Premier Brian Gallant challenged the public during a call-in radio show to help him identify deals that were "not equitable."
Tax exemptions and discounts explored by the CBC include multimillion dollar breaks on forest properties, farmland, petroleum sites and other facilities. In some cases, the tax breaks have stayed in place long after their original purpose became irrelevant.
This year, the tax breaks will cost the province an estimated $24 million.
That amount includes a seldom-mentioned $6.5 million provincial property tax exemption for Irving Oil's Canaport LNG properties.
"The repealing of the LNG Act has no effect on the provincial property tax exemption," Nichole Bowman, a spokeswoman for Service New Brunswick, said in an email.
"The LNG facility will still be eligible for exemption of provincial tax revenue."
The other tax deals looked at by CBC News include:
- A 23-year freeze on the assessment of more than $2 billion worth of privately owned timberland that causes forest properties in New Brunswick to be undervalued for tax purposes by as much as 90 per cent.
- A tax deferral program on agricultural land that has allowed owners to postpone — and ultimately not pay — $129.9 million in provincial property tax over the last 38 years.
- A property tax exemption on crude oil storage tanks and pipelines attached to the Irving Oil refinery granted in response to the 1979 oil crisis that has been allowed to continue for decades after the crisis ended.
- Three other property tax exemptions for New Brunswick ports, airports and railway right of ways that have expanded to cost the province triple the amount originally estimated.
Finance Minister Cathy Rogers said it was too big a task, and her department has recently begun looking at all special government tax deals.
"We decided we needed to do a more comprehensive review," she said.
"We are looking at this [now]."
Farmland tax forgiveness
Peter Hyslop, a Hartland-based lawyer, said one of the most generous of the tax deals, the 38-year-old program that forgives provincial property taxes on farm property, would trigger major political trouble for anyone who tried to undo it.
"I think you'd have a hard time electing that party up and down the [St. John River] Valley," Hyslop said."I expect there would be a pretty significant uproar."
Devised in 1978, the program allows farm owners to defer provincial property tax on land and farm buildings for 15 years, at which point, if the land is still in agricultural use, the debt is forgiven.
A total of $129.9 million in farmland property tax has gone uncollected by the province since the program began.
This year, hundreds of agricultural businesses used it to avoid paying provincial tax on nearly $600 million worth of property including the multi-billion-dollar Florenceville company, McCain Foods, which sheltered at least $11 million of its farmland and buildings from taxes inside the program.
Timberland tax concessions
Even larger than that are property tax concessions for owners of forestland.
About three million hectares of forest is owned privately in New Brunswick — an area five times the size of Prince Edward Island. J.D. Irving, Ltd., alone owns 725,000 hectares of that.Adjusted for inflation, taxes on timberland in New Brunswick are now less than half what they were in 1966, following a series of assessment freezes over 50 years, including the last 23 years in a row.
For tax purposes, forest properties are deemed to be worth $100 per hectare and have been since 1994 even though the same properties sell on the open market for several times that.
It produces heavily discounted property tax bills, and even some who benefit from it, like Gray Rapids Timber co owner Carl Faulkner wonder if it's too generous.
"I think about that all the time and I really can't come up with the right answer," he said. "I honestly can't."
The land was assessed by the province — and taxed — as being worth $85,300. The Nature Conservancy had it independently appraised before the sale for $950,000.
As a sign of how stubborn tax deals can be to dislodge once granted, CBC News also looked at a 1980 tax exemption granted on crude oil storage tanks and pipelines attached to the Irving Oil refinery.
It was awarded largely to help the company survive a worldwide oil crisis that began in 1979, but the arrangement was left undisturbed after the troubles resolved themselves in the mid-1980s.
Originally valued at between $400,000 and $500,000, the province will not say exactly what the crude oil tank and pipeline exemption is worth now, only to acknowledge it is "substantially more" than in 1980.
Commercial tax deals 'not equitable'
On the call-in show that led to the CBC investigation, Gallant did not define what kind of tax deal he would consider to be "not equitable." However, the various tax deals and concessions in place contrast sharply with property taxes paid by those without special treatment.
Keith Brideau has helped revive a number of old buildings in downtown Saint John and they're taxed at some of the highest commercial property tax rates in Canada, about 40 per cent of them levied by the province.Brideau would like to see the entire property tax system reviewed, deals and all.
"When something has been around for a long time it tends to stay the same," he said.
"I think we have to challenge the existing system."
Packaged by Daniel McHardie
Video by Paul Hantiuk and Earl Cabuhat