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Nobody asked us if we want fracking, Sussex LSD chair says

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https://twitter.com/DavidRayAmos/with_replies



 
Replying to and 48 others
Surprise Surprise Surprise

https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2018/12/nobody-asked-us-if-we-want-fracking.html





https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/shale-gas-development-corridor-resources-sussex-1.4932777




Protesters crash MLAs' tour of shale gas fields



1 Comments


David Amos 
David Amos
Surprise Surprise Surprise







https://twitter.com/DavidRayAmos/with_replies



 
Replying to and 48 others
Methinks after watching folks laugh at me for 14 years I have the right to say that they deserve to represented by the likes of Higgs and Northrup N'esy Pas?

https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2018/12/nobody-asked-us-if-we-want-fracking.html




https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/sussex-area-lsd-fracking-moratorium-1.4930621



Nobody asked us if we want fracking, Sussex LSD chair says




67 Comments




David Amos
David Amos
Methinks after watching folks laugh at me for 14 years I have the right to say that they deserve to represented by the likes of Higgs and Northrup N'esy Pas?


David Amos
David Amos





David Amos 
David Amos
Methinks folks should read all the comments published within two articles about fracking in Sussex today N'esy Pas?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/people-alliance-shale-gas-fracking-vote-1.4931028





Thomas Imber 
Thomas Imber
Incorporated municipalities and rural communities have a real say in what goes on within their boundaries, so maybe this will be a good incentive for LSDs around the province to consider their options.

The funny thing is that some of the same people who are anti-fracking see no issue with pulp mills spewing pollution into the air and water every day.


David Amos
David Amos
@Thomas Imber "Incorporated municipalities and rural communities have a real say in what goes on within their boundaries,"

Methinks thou doth jest too much N'esy Pas?







Thomas Imber 
Scott McLaughlin
Sussex will become a boom town. The locals will all embrace the new industry. The rest of the tree-huggers in the province will be envious.


David Amos
David Amos
@Scott McLaughlin Dream on








 Thomas Imber 
Roy Kirk
If it is going to be decided as a local matter, then perhaps the local communities should set and collect the resource royalty. That would be an interesting precedent to set.

David Amos
David Amos
@Roy Kirk Methinks the amount of royalty should be discussed first N'esy Pas?

Arthur John
Arthur John
@David Amos Natural gas is being produced now and has been for years and royalties have been collected for years

Roy Kirk
Roy Kirk
@Arthur John Can you point to the line item in the public accounts that confirms your position? And what has been the royalty paid, in $ per GJ?

David Amos
David Amos
@Arthur John Do you know the figure?

David Amos
David Amos
@David Amos A fine lady by the name of Janet Matheson researched this stuff for years and tried to tell folks how little we were being paid in royalties and nobody seemed to care. I won't steal her thunder because it can still be found on the Internet if you takes the time to look for it.








 Thomas Imber 
Colin Seeley
“ So nobody asked us “ he says.

Really !!

But you do for sure know about it.

Better to organize and ask for a plebiscite and go from there.

Please make it snappy before we we get declared a failed province.

And what’s you plan for jobs ?


Dave Peters
Dave Peters
@Arthur John Oil + other chemicals produce plastic. NG would power generators, produce steam, heat your home, cook your food, provide food processors with affordable energy. It could be a catalyst for new business's and industries in Sussex. In the grand scheme of things what could it hurt, really. NOT A FAN OF EXPORT OF THIS RESOURCE FOR SOMEONE ELSE TO PROFIT FROM.

David Amos
David Amos
@Dave Peters You know as well as I the Irving Clan wants it for next to nothing








 Thomas Imber 
Arthur John
She'd rather see the province's financial resources go toward increasing the energy efficiency of homes so carbon-based energy wouldn't be in such high demand.

The provinces financial resources (of which 40% come from transfer payments from BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan where they frack oil and gas wells) does not go into Natural gas exploration. Trains of oil cars travel through New Brunswick are carrying oil produced from fracked wells in North Dakota and Saskatchewan.

I suggest if this lady wants to reduce her carbon footprint than she should move off her beef farm because meat production causes pollution through the use of fossil fuels, animal methane, effluent waste and land consumtion


Ian Smyth
Ian Smyth
@Arthur John yup, cattle livestock account for 14.5% of global ghg emissions.

Rosco holt
Rosco holt
@Ian Smyth
How much ghg emissions do politicians spew?

Ian Smyth
Ian Smyth
@Rosco holt I don't know but definitely lots of hot air :p

David Amos
David Amos
@Ian Smyth Methinks I know the source of the hot air N'esy Pas?








 Thomas Imber
@Ian Smyth Methinks I know the source of the hot air N'esy Pas?








Thomas Imber
Ian Smyth
the only difference between fracking and the already existing and operating natural gas wells is that instead of pumping the gas out of a permeable media you increase the permeability of shale by fracturing it. These rocks are hundreds of meters below ground surface and it is impossible for fractures to propagate to our aquifers. For logistical purposes the only difference between conventional extraction and fracking is that there is waste water to deal with.

Rosco holt
Rosco holt
@Ian Smyth
Waste water that companies keep the chemical recipe secret and are not willing to build a waste water treatment plant to dispose of it properly.

Roy Kirk
Roy Kirk
@Ian Smyth
Not the only difference.

Gas in a permeable medium must be overlain by an impermeable one in order to have been retained for exploitation rather than seeping out to the atmosphere over the ages.

Gas trapped in impermeable shale needs no such overlay in order to have been retained to the current day. If the fracturing extends to the shale surface and no overlay is present, it is possible that the outcome will be quite different than in fracing traditional deposits.

The devil is in the details.

Ian Smyth
Ian Smyth
@Roy Kirk there is extensive exploration and mapping done on the shale deposits and fractures/faults, they wouldn't frack if there is a possibility of that happening.

Roy Kirk
Roy Kirk
@Ian Smyth If such evidence exists it should lain on the table and examined in a public and transparent manner so that it can be examined and tested prior to rendering a decision. And how do you know what "they" or any of us will do when faced with a decision to risk an action for profit?

Ronald Parker
Ronald Parker
@Ian Smyth there have been cases were concrete casing have failed so dont use the word impossible. Millions of liters of waste water at that.

Ian Smyth
Ian Smyth
@Ronald Parker the only difference in that case between fracking and the existing wells is there may be water contamination (which would be bad), the existing wells' casing could fail and cause contamination but they haven't.

I said it impossible for fractures to propagate to surface, leaking well casing and waste water are the two major issues with fracking, with natural gas production it is leaking well casing.

Ian Smyth
Ian Smyth
@Roy Kirk EIAs and feasibility studies are always public, feel free to take a look, Corridor resources Inc would be the proponent to look for. you can find all of their publicly released documents at sedar (dot) com

the general public understands next to nothing about geology so they don't bother to read these types of thing. Unless you've studied it you'll have a hard time digesting it.

Roy Kirk
Roy Kirk
@Ian Smyth So you are saying that "there is extensive exploration and mapping done on the shale deposits and fractures/faults" and that evidence is in the stuff put up in corridor's financial filings?, EIAs and feasibility studies? and I should just go find it?!

I take another view: That we've elected members and a government to do that type of work for us and present their conclusions in a coherent and convincing manner, with argument supported by evidence. So I ask: Where is such documentation?

Even the simple stuff isn't forthcoming, such as: What is the $ per GJ actually recd by NB for gas produced, net of any credits back to the companies involved. And when they can't (or won't) answer such simple questions in a clear and public manner, why should we 'just trust them' when it comes to the more obscure material?


Ian Smyth
Ian Smyth
@Roy Kirk you can make that argument about everything the government does, you are applying these high standards of transparency in a selective way.

your issue seems to be larger than the fracking issue alone.

Roy Kirk
Roy Kirk
@Ian Smyth No, I'm applying those high standards to the topic at hand. And I'm curious, Do you think the government and Corridor cannot meet such a standard of transparency and still maintain public acceptance of their activity? If so, why?

Ian Smyth
Ian Smyth
@Roy Kirk they are certainly possible but it is never done and possible not thought of? I don't know I'm not a public relations specialist.

do they consult the general public on use of salt to de-ice roads? salt contamination is widespread because of this, it has been shown that it can lead to increased mobility of heavy metals in the subsurface which is a significant issue, it can also contaminate shallow groundwater with salt.

This seems like it would be a much more digestible topic for the public to be consulted on but it isn't, why isn't it? I would guess because it never has been. I don't have an issue with what you are asking (absolute transparency) but to think that will be the roadblock that stops resource development doesn't seem likely based on current and past precedence.

David Amos
David Amos
@Ian Smyth Methinks you and Northrup should have tried to debate me about this stuff during the last election N'esy Pas?

Fred Brewer
Fred Brewer
@Ian Smyth
"it is impossible for fractures to propagate to our aquifers"

This has been proved to be false. The pipe goes through the aquifer or through permeable soils that are connected to aquifers. The pipe seals are prone to leakage.

Roy Kirk
Roy Kirk
@Ian Smyth
You may not be a public relations specialist, but you're making a play right out their book -- changing the topic rather than addressing the issue. Salt on roads is not the issue. Evidence and argument as to the costs and benefits of gas fracing in Sussex and NB is the topic. Let them lay it out in cold, hard facts. 

The fact that they don't leads reasonable people to suspect that the benefits are not as much as they're claimed to be, and the risks may be higher than that to which they will admit.

I'm one of those people that has no problem with fracing if done properly and if we -- NBers -- are adequately compensated for the resource and risk. But a succession of governments has done little or nothing to establish those facts, leaving me, and many others, to conclude that the activity is, in fact, not in the public interest at current market prices. I could be convinced otherwise, but the fact that the proponents don't even make a reasonable attempt to do so is troubling

Gary Spencer
Gary Spencer
@Ian Smyth This is hardly a fair comparison, road salt is a public safety issue (lives are saved), fracking is a private profits issue (corporations profit). If road salt is not applied government phone ring off the hook from public complaints. If fracking is not performed how many in the public would complain?








 Thomas Imber 
SarahRose Werner
So much for the PC's claim that fracking has widespread support in the Sussex area.


Ian Smyth
Ian Smyth
@SarahRose Werner you can find any people within a population that are for and against things. I wouldn't take CBC finding three people that will publicly comment against fracking as an indicator of the entire area's feelings.

Thomas Imber
Thomas Imber
@SarahRose Werner Widespread support exists, no one said it needs every single person to support it.

Rosco holt
Rosco holt
@Thomas Imber
Higgs needs to put it (referendum) the people in the Sussex area to show a clear support.

Fred Brewer
Fred Brewer
@Ian Smyth
"I wouldn't take CBC finding three people that will publicly comment against fracking as an indicator of the entire area's feelings."

I agree. To find more people who are against fracking one only needs to do some Google research. Try searching for "Fracking nightmare in Penobsquis".

Fred Brewer
Fred Brewer
@Thomas Imber
"Widespread support exists,"

Proof please. (cue the crickets)

David Amos
David Amos
@Ian Smyth "I wouldn't take CBC finding three people that will publicly comment against fracking as an indicator of the entire area's feelings."

Methinks Corridor Resources, Mr Higgs and definitely Bruce Northrup know why i share this story which appeared in the Kings County Record a local newsrag owned by the Irving Clan on June 22, 2004 I definitely mentioned natural gas then N'esy Pas?

The Unconventional Candidate
By Gisele McKnight

"FUNDY—He has a pack of cigarettes in his shirt pocket, a chain on his wallet, a beard at least a foot long, 60 motorcycles and a cell phone that rings to the tune of "Yankee Doodle."

Meet the latest addition to the Fundy ballot—David Amos. The independent candidate lives in Milton, Massachusetts with his wife and two children, but his place of residence does not stop him from running for office in Canada."

"Amos, 52, is running for political office because of his dissatisfaction with politicians. "I've become aware of much corruption involving our two countries," he said. "The only way to fix corruption is in the political forum."

"What he's fighting for is the discussion of issues – tainted blood, the exploitation of the Maritimes' gas and oil reserves and NAFTA, to name a few.

"The political issues in the Maritimes involve the three Fs – fishing, farming and forestry, but they forget foreign issues," he said. "I'm death on NAFTA, the back room deals and free trade. I say chuck it (NAFTA) out the window

NAFTA is the North American Free Trade Agreement which allows an easier flow of goods between Canada, the United States and Mexico









 Thomas Imber 
Douglas James
What is most disappointing is that with all the problems this province faces, Higgs decided it would be a good time to revive the already dismissed fracking option. All the time that his government will have to spend on this matter is time that could be better spent fixing everything the previous Liberal and Conservatives governments broke i.e. the healthcare and education systems.


David Amos
David Amos
@Douglas James Methinks if you wish to recall Higgs and Northrup pounding on this drum all summer long hence this should be no surprise N'esy Pas?





Protesters crash MLAs' tour of shale gas fields

People’s Alliance leader suggests referendum as possible way to determine social licence

Shale protesters lined the road to shale gas fields near Penobsquis on Tuesday while MLAs were given a tour of the facilities. (Pierre Fournier/CBC)


Corridor Resources invited New Brunswick MLAs to tour shale gas fields in the Sussex area on Tuesday, but they were greeted by some unexpected guests.

Dozens of demonstrators lined the road in Penobsquis, holding signs and banners protesting the Progressive Conservative government's plan for shale gas development in the area.

With lawmakers present, many rural residents took the chance to make their voices heard.

"I wish Mr. Higgs would be a little bit more forward thinking instead of going backward, because the oil and gas industry is going backward, that's what's happening," said Carol Ring.

"The future is renewable energy."

Protesters took the opportunity Tuesday with MLAs in the area to make their voices heard. (Pierre Fournier/CBC)
 
 
The tour concluded with a presentation in Sussex, where demonstrators were able to get some facetime with the MLAs, including Kris Austin. The People's Alliance leader was criticized by a crowd of people for his NIMBY-ism shown toward fracking.

The Alliance MLAs say they have hesitations about allowing it in their own ridings and could vote against it. But they say they will not try to stop fracking in ridings they don't represent.
"It's provincial legislation. If it's good enough here, it should be good enough everywhere," one individual told Austin. "You shouldn't be lifting a ban just on one region and putting us in the middle of it like this."

People's Alliance Leader Kris Austin speaks with shale gas protesters in Sussex on Tuesday. (Pierre Fournier/CBC)
 
 
Austin replied: "Well, again, that's why I stress local residents should talk to their local MLA to express those concerns."

He suggested a referendum might be the best way to determine if the government has the social licence, or community approval, to permit fracking.

The PC throne speech passed by the legislature last Friday included a sub-amendment that exempts "communities in and around the town of Sussex" from a shale gas moratorium. The precise area around Sussex wasn't identified.

Residents divided


The crowd that gathered Tuesday wasn't solely anti-fracking. There are residents who see shale gas development as a way to improve the local economy.

"I feel that in these rural areas, if we don't find work, there's not gonna be nothing, and I don't want to live in a big city," said Stewart Duncan.

"I love living in a rural community so my feeling is that if we could move forward with this, the surrounding areas would benefit from this, like our hospitals, our schools, education and money from this is actually what pays for these places to be open."
We're in a climate crisis and we can't be increasing the production of fossil fuels anymore.- Green Leader David Coon
Others are more skeptical about the economic benefits.

"We're saying if you follow the science you'll know that this cannot be done safely, and it's really questionable that there are any real employment or economic benefits to fracking, so what's the point?" said Roy Ries.

It appears the minds of the MLAs won't be changing as a result of the tour.

"All of the serious risks of fracking and shale gas development remain," said Green Party Leader David Coon.

Green Leader David Coon, right, and Green MLA Megan Mitton won't be changing their stance on fracking after Tuesday's tour of gas fields. (Pierre Fournier/CBC)
 
"We're in a climate crisis and we can't be increasing the production of fossil fuels anymore."
Liberal MLA Cathy Rogers says the current moratorium imposed by the former Gallant government should still be used as a guiding principal when in comes to shale gas development. It has five conditions that must be met before fracking can go ahead.

They are: social licence to extract shale gas; reliable data on health; environmental and water impacts; a plan to dispose of wastewater; proper Indigenous consultations; and a proper structure for the province to collect royalty payments.

 "We are not at that point," said Rogers.
With files from Tori Weldon
CBC's Journalistic Standards and Practices




Nobody asked us if we want fracking, Sussex LSD chair says

PCs accused of sacrificing Sussex-area communities for 'a few pieces of silver'


When it comes to government's move to lift the shale gas moratorium, Gordon Kierstead, chair of the local service district of Sussex, said local communities shouldn't be sacrificed for a few pieces of silver. (Tori Weldon/CBC)


Some people in communities surrounding the town of Sussex are hoping the province slows down and asks the people who will be affected by fracking if they want it.

On Friday, the throne speech passed by the legislature included a sub-amendment that exempts "communities in and around the town of Sussex" from a shale gas moratorium. The precise area around Sussex wasn't identified.

The province hopes a cabinet order will happen in the next few weeks to make the amendment official.
Gordon Kierstead of Ward's Creek, chair of the local service district in Sussex, said no one has come to him to ask if the roughly 2,600 residents in the area support fracking.

"There's been no town halls," said Kierstead. "There's been meetings, no nothing to determine if there is a social licence or a willingness."

Kierstead said it's easy for politicians to say they have community support, but he questions where the support is coming from.

"For a few pieces of silver, they're willing to sacrifice the surrounding area."

Energy and Resource Development Minister Mike Holland has said the government will make sure there's a "means and mechanism" for consulting people in the Sussex area before accepting people want fracking there.

Premier Blaine Higgs said in August that he'd measure support for development by listening to municipal councils, then let the consultations "spread out" to surrounding local service districts through open meetings.

On Friday, Higgs said passage of shale-gas language in the throne speech was a green light for a localized lifting of the fracking moratorium in Sussex-area communities that have demonstrated support for it. 

Needs more consultation


Kierstead is concerned the government will rely on the opinions of business and municipal leaders in Sussex, who he said are not in a position to make decisions for surrounding rural communities.

He pointed to a dust-up back in 2011, when Ralph Carr, the mayor of Sussex at the time, denounced a seismic surveying company for sending exploration trucks inside town limits without municipal approval.

Carr's stern reaction was reinforced by many councillors, with the mayor explaining that some people in his community are wary of the shale gas industry.


Stephanie Coburn, who lives on a beef farm in Head of Mill Stream, said it would be the 'thin edge of the wedge,' if fracking resumed in Penobsquis. (Tori Weldon/CBC)
Kierstead said it is frustrating to be the one area in the province where the moratorium could be lifted by 2019.

"There needs to be a lot more consultation. I mean they're rushing this through and they don't want to listen."

Twenty-five kilometres north of Sussex, Stephanie Coburn was disappointed by the proposed lifting of the moratorium in and around Sussex, and questioned if more communities will follow.

"I really feel this is the thin edge of the wedge, if they can frack in Penobsquis again," said Coburn, who lives on a beef farm in Head of Mill Stream.

Favours referendum for province


In 1999, natural gas wells were installed in Penobsquis, 14 kilometres west of Sussex, where they are still being met with a mixed reaction.

Bruce Northrup, the MLA for Sussex-Fundy-St. Martins, has said the community supports a resumption of drilling.

Coburn said she would favour a referendum but not just for Sussex and surrounding communities. She'd like to see the question put to the entire province because there is a larger question at play.

"Do we want to be taking carbon-based product out of the ground and burning it and increasing our carbon footprint?"

She'd rather see the province's financial resources go toward increasing the energy efficiency of homes so carbon-based energy wouldn't be in such high demand.

Coburn would also rather her own energy be spent elsewhere.

"I am 71 years old," she said. "I would love to be home playing with my grandchild instead of talking about fracking again."

Corrections

  • An earlier version of this story suggested the government would not consult people in Sussex-area communities about fracking. In fact, Energy and Resource Development Minister Mike Holland has promised a "means and mechanism" for determining whether local people do support fracking.
    Dec 04, 2018 10:47 AM AT

About the Author

 


Tori Weldon
Reporter
Tori Weldon is a reporter based in Moncton. She's been working for the CBC since 2008.
CBC's Journalistic Standards and Practices










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