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Irving Oil announces more leadership changes as president steps down

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Irving Oil announces more leadership changes as president steps down

Ian Whitcomb's departure comes amid ongoing strategic review of company's future

Irving Oil president Ian Whitcomb is resigning from the post as the private company, one of New Brunswick's largest employers, continues a strategic review of its future.

Whitcomb "made a personal decision to step down," after being in the role for more than eight years, the Saint John-based company announced on its website Monday.

The resignation comes on the heels of other major leadership changes at Irving Oil, which has about 4,000 employees.

As of last fall, Arthur Irving, 93, is no longer chair of the board of directors, but chair emeritus. His daughter, Sarah Irving, who was executive vice-president and widely seen as his heir apparent, is no longer part of the leadership team.

The strategic review of the company, announced last June, is continuing and "outcomes associated with it are not yet clear," Maureen Kempston-Darkes, lead director of Irving Oil's board of directors, said in a statement.

A "series of options" related to the company's future are being evaluated, including a new ownership structure, a full or partial sale, or a change in the portfolio of assets and how they are operated, the company has said.

 An aerial view of the Irving Oil property feature large barrels with the letters spelling Irving.Irving Oil's Saint John refinery is Canada’s largest, processing about 320,000 barrels a day and producing gasoline, diesel, heating oil, jet fuel, propane and asphalt. (Mike Heenan/CBC)

Since no decisions about Whitcomb's replacement have been made, Jeff Matthews, chief financial officer of Irving Oil, "will take the leadership role in this process," Kempston-Darkes said.

Matthews, who joined Irving Oil more than 29 years ago, "has a deep knowledge of our company and the evolving needs of our customers," she said.

The rest of the senior leadership team remains unchanged, according to the release.

Could signal pending sale

Andrew Lipow, president of Lipow Oil Associates, an industry consulting firm in Houston, said there could be more behind Whitcomb's decision.

"It might be that they're nearing the finish line on the strategic review process, and that may be leading to the sale of the company to a much bigger oil industry player," he said.

"And perhaps Ian Whitcomb is reading between the lines himself, deciding that his eight and a half years at Irving Oil was enough and perhaps there's something else that he would like to do.

I think the writing is on the wall and there's going to be an ownership change, or at least a joint-venture structure.
- Tom Kloza, industry analyst

Tom Kloza, founder of Oil Price Information Service, agrees.

"I think the writing is on the wall and there's going to be an ownership change, or at least a joint-venture structure," he said.

When a company announces a strategic review — whether it's a refiner, or a producer, or a marketer —  "in at least three-quarters of the cases … usually that's corporate speak for, 'We're looking to sell the company or to cash in with some sort of an event,'" according to Kloza.

Premier Blaine Higgs, a former Irving Oil executive, has previously suggested that the federal carbon tax and clean fuel standards were among the reasons the family was exploring selling all or part of the company.

Company spokesperson Katherine d'Entremont could not immediately be reached for comment.

Will stay on until June 9

Whatever Whitcomb's reasons for stepping down, Lipow said he must be leaving on good terms, as Irving Oil said he will continue to serve as president until June 9.

"I am grateful for Ian's leadership of Irving Oil over the past eight and a half years," Arthur Irving said in a statement.

Whitcomb helped "lead the company through a significant period of growth," he said, wishing him "the very best in the future."

A portrait of an older man wearing a suit and tie, speaking to a younger man in a suit, whose back is to the camera. Arthur Irving, 93, is now chairman emeritus of Irving Oil, according to the company's website, and 'continues to maintain a respected advisory role for the board and its activities.' (Michel Corriveau/Radio-Canada)

In the company-issued statement, Whitcomb said he is "very proud of our team and what we have accomplished together."

He is also grateful for the opportunity and mentorship, he added.

As president, Whitcomb has been responsible for the day-to-day management of Irving Oil and the relationship with the board, guiding the company's strategy and keeping it focused on its goals, according to the website.

Former CFO joins board

Earlier this month, Irving Oil announced to employees that Jon McKenzie was rejoining the company as a board member.

McKenzie, the president and CEO of Cenovus Energy, based in Calgary, previously served as the chief financial officer and chief commercial officer for Irving Oil, according to the internal Feb. 6 memo, obtained by CBC News.

"John brings important industry and company-specific knowledge to our business at a time when the business is facing important questions related to its future, but is also equally focused on strong performance," Arthur Irving said in the memo.

McKenzie has more than 30 years of finance and operations experience in the Canadian oil and gas industry, it says.

At Irving Oil, he was responsible for all supply, trading and commercial aspects of the company, including co-ordinating business development projects involving pipelines, rail and terminal operations.

"I welcome the opportunity to continue to contribute to the success of Irving Oil," McKenzie said in the memo.


 
 
69 Comments 


 
David Amos 
One former Irving Oil boss I respect immensely is Arthur's son Kenneth 
 
 
 
David Amos 
"Premier Blaine Higgs, a former Irving Oil executive, has previously suggested that the federal carbon tax and clean fuel standards were among the reasons the family was exploring selling all or part of the
company."

Yea Right
 
 
 
David Amos
content deactivated
"Company spokesperson Katherine d'Entremont could not immediately be
reached for comment."

She lots to say when she worked for GNB
 
 


Matt Steele
Canada has certainly taken a hit over the past EIGHT years with the current FEDERAL government which has created massive housing shortages, hyper inflation , over whelmed education , healthcare , and even food banks as the FEDERAL government debt has nearly DOUBLED in the last EIGHT years from a little over 600 BILLION , to a current 1.2 TRILLION . So it only make sense that Canadian based companies are looking to jump ship as Canada self destructs due to FEDERAL government policies . The last one out , turn out the lights please as elections have consequences .


Le Wier
Reply to Matt Steele
How long before Higgs follows suit with Alberta and wants NB out of the national pharmacare deal?


valmond landry
Reply to Matt Steele
CANADA is one of the best country to live in sir.
 

Matt Steele
Reply to Le Wier
There will be no Pharmacare Program as there is no money to pay for it as Health Care is already overwhelmed . Everything that the Federal Government is promising will never happen as there is ZERO money ; and even the Canadian Military has been gutted .


Noel Fowles
Reply to Matt Steele
we do not have hyper inflation. We have the second lowest inflation of the G20. Hyper inflation was 17%, but maybe you forgot that, and that was without a pandemic.

What is "over whelmed" education?

We just went through a pandemic. All expert economists, except you it seems, said stimulation of the economy was necessary to fend off a depression. Not a recession.

Regarding the Irving refinery, it became a bit of a white elephant when Line 9 was reversed allowing Alberta oil to move to Quebec refineries. It is cheaper than the world price Irving was paying.


Ron parker
Reply to Noel Fowles
MS like to blame everything on JT


Le Wier
Reply to Matt Steele
Only time will tell. Yes the CAF has been under funded for decades, and Canada is being held to its NATO pledge of 2%.


David Amos
Reply to Le Wier
Of that I have no doubt


David Amos
Reply to Le Wier
Do you know about NATO and I?


Le Wier
Reply to David Amos
No what is your NATO connection?


David Amos
Reply to Le Wier
Greta Bossenmaier




Allison Ritt
I am surprised Higgs hasn't yet applied for the job. It is right up his alley, or is he right up theirs?


David Amos
Reply to Allison Ritt
Methinks Higgy wants to be a Senator or an Ambassador N'esy Pas?




Al Clark
Perhaps they can see what Mickey cannot? ;-)


David Amos
Reply to Al Clark
I know I can




June Arnott
The Irvings better not put in writing that any company that buys gets the same tax breaks. The stranglehold on NB taxpayers could be near its end! Now lets stop the spraying of toxic chemicals in Nature.


Jim Beam
Reply to June Arnott
I can't wait to meet our new emperors!


Deborah Reddon
Reply to June Arnott
Well said, June. Irvings have not paid their share. They get the best deal in all of Canada for Crown Land and then, they make the taxpayer's of NB pay for the glyphosate which is sprayed on our land.
No other company in Canada has it so good. Would be the best thing for NB if they sold up.


David Amos
Reply to Jim Beam
Me too



 
Janice Belliveau
Just a new label on a tainted can of Tuna......


GeorgeW Biggs
Reply to Janice Belliveau
But the story isn't about NB fish products.


June Arnott
Reply to Janice Belliveau
Pretty much yes, lets hope though the new owners pay their fair share of taxes. We all know the Irvings dont


David Amos

Reply to GeorgeW Biggs
It smells the same




Rosco holt
Higgs makes sure that the refinery has a great profit margin so Irving can download it. Higgs's private pension will probably get a bump from everything he's done for his master.


David Amos
Reply to Rosco holt
Of course




David Wilson

Just one pariah replacing another.


David Amos
Reply to David Wilson
True




Murray Brown
Higgs's job is secure... Hopefully sooner rather than later, his 'paid' leave of absence will be coming to an end and he can return to the Irving's to run their empire fulltime.


MR Cain
Reply to Murray Brown
He has retired and there is no future for him at Irving, given his poor financial management skills.


David Amos
Reply to Murray Brown
Dream on



 
Lou Bell

Cue all the Liberal " conspiracy theories . We see all the stories about Irving in Saint John , property taxes , and everything else . all the while nothing about their properties in Moncton . Sounds like
someone wants to protect their tax base in Moncton . Face it , all the Irving stories with Higgs mentioned are nothing more than politicalo footballs from the media and the Liberals out of Moncton . If I was a resident of Saint John I'd be quite upset with how the Moncton Liberals and media have become involved in Saint John's business .


Kyle Woodman
Reply to Lou Bell
Cue Lou with all his conspiracy theories.


G. Timothy Walton
Reply to Lou Bell
What conspiracy? He was probably offered a more exciting role somewhere that will give him the stock options Irving can't offer.


Alison Jackson
Reply to Lou Bell
So...this article about the Irving Empire is really about how liberals ruined NB??
Ok,lol.


Ron parker
Reply to Lou Bell
I think you need a tow truck with all that spinning.


Deborah Reddon
Reply to Lou Bell
Oh come on Lou, the whole Province of NB has been pinned under the thumb of Irvings.


David Amos
Reply to Kyle Woodman
Welcome back to the circus (BTW Lou is a she)
 



Saturday 21 October 2023

Who could buy Irving Oil and what could it mean to Saint John?

 
 

Who could buy Irving Oil and what could it mean to Saint John?

Speculation about a possible sale continues amid recent leadership changes and strategic review

As speculation swirls about a possible sale of Irving Oil, an industry analyst says potential buyers could include another major oil company, some smaller firms, or even a government.

Meanwhile, the mayor of Saint John says she hopes any potential new owner will be "good corporate citizens as well and continue the philanthropic path we have come to expect."

Patrick De Haan, the head of petroleum analysis at GasBuddy, and Mayor Donna Reardon were reacting to the news this week about leadership changes at Irving Oil.

Arthur Irving, who was chair of the board of directors and responsible for Irving Oil's "vision," is now listed on the company's website as the chair emeritus, who "continues to maintain a respected advisory role for the board."

His daughter, Sarah Irving, who was executive vice-president and widely seen as the 93-year-old's heir apparent, is no longer part of the leadership team, according to the company's website.

The changes follow Irving Oil's announcement in June of an internal strategic review that could result in "a new ownership structure, a full or partial sale, or a change in the portfolio of [the company's] assets" and how it operate them.

Company spokesperson Katherine d'Entremont has not responded to requests from CBC News for comments on the changes. 

'Unsettling'

It's "a little unsettling to see the leadership changing at Irving Oil," De Haan said. 

The company, founded in 1924 by Arthur's father, K.C. Irving, operates Canada's largest refinery in Saint John, which is "one of the most critical on the eastern seaboard," he said.

It processes about 320,000 barrels a day, producing gasoline, diesel, heating oil, jet fuel, propane and asphalt. And De Haan estimated it exports as much as three-quarters of its refined products to the United States.

"Much of the northeastern markets rely on this refinery for diesel, for heating oil," he said.

 An aerial view of the Irving Oil property feature large barrels with the letters spelling Irving.Irving Oil's Saint John refinery began operations in 1960 with a production capacity of 40,000 barrels per day. Today, it is Canada’s largest refinery, with a capacity of more than 300,000 barrels a day. (Mike Heenan/CBC)

If Irving Oil does decide to put the refinery on the market, its "versatility" and ability to export to the global market, including the U.S., Europe and Asia, would make it more valuable, said De Haan.

"I would think a private company would be interested in this"— either a major oil refinery company, another major oil company, or even some smaller firms, which have shown interest in buying refineries in recent years, he said, pointing to PBF Energy in the United States as an example.

It could also be a public company, and "it wouldn't be impossible that there could be also some state-owned operations that could be interested in this," such as governments in the Middle East, for example.

"A lot of oil-producing nations are looking for homes into markets to sell their oil."

Irving Oil also owns Ireland's only refinery, Whitegate, which processes up to 75,000 barrels a day, and "more than 900 fuelling locations and a network of distribution terminals spanning Eastern Canada and New England," according to its website.

Environmental requirements could decrease value

More stringent federal environmental regulations, however, "could be a problem," said De Haan.

There are clean fuel regulations, designed to lower the carbon intensity of fuel suppliers — the amount of carbon dioxide they emit per unit of product — by 15 per cent by 2030. There is also the federal carbon tax, designed to nudge consumers toward other options, such as electric cars or public transit.

 A portrait of a man with short brown hair, a beard and glasses, with closed blinds behind him, blocking out the sun.Patrick De Haan, head of petroleum analysis at GasBuddy, said the push toward electric vehicles in both Canada and the United States could affect the value of the Saint John refinery in a potential sale. (CBC)

Although De Haan contends Irving Oil has done "a tremendous job environmentally improving," this "certainly does diminish the value."

The Saint John refinery is New Brunswick's largest greenhouse gas emitter.

In addition, refinery sales have been "less liquid than they were decades ago, and so there may be a limited amount of potential buyers suited," said De Haan.

In fact, some refineries for sale in the U.S. have not even found buyers, he said.

"So it's a very difficult market right now."

Mayor fears loss of community involvement

For Saint John's mayor, the idea that the refinery could be sold to a "huge conglomerate" raises concerns.

Irving Oil has been "an integral partner in SJ in supporting the community," Reardon said in a written statement.

"Their personal interest in SJ is driven by the fact they are local. They live and work in the city — they are not absentee landlords.

"This bond with SJ is demonstrated in their community involvement and the many partnerships over the years."

She pointed to the Irving Oil Field House, the YMCA of Greater Saint John and the Imperial Theatre's Irving Oil Auditorium as examples that help make the city "livable, vibrant, attractive to young people and families and can drive growth."

A woman with glasses and short hair smiles at the camera Saint John Mayor Donna Reardon said even refinery shutdowns for maintenance generate a lot of spinoffs for local businesses by bringing in many outside workers. (Hadeel Ibrahim/C

A new owner would also have its own headquarters, which would likely mean the loss of local executive positions and the viability of Irving Oil's "legacy build" headquarters uptown, said Reardon.

Although she suspects the refinery would continue to operate in Saint John, she note that when shipbuilding moved to Halifax, many young people "followed the work," and the city's birth rate "dropped significantly."

"We don't want to lose our young people."

Irving Oil is one of New Brunswick's largest employers, with about 4,000 employees.

CBC's Journalistic Standards and Practices
 
 
 
59 Comments 

 
 
David R. Amos
One former Irving Oil boss I respect immensely is Arthur's son Kenneth
 
 
David R. Amos
 "For Saint John's mayor, the idea that the refinery could be sold to a "huge conglomerate" raises concerns.

Irving Oil has been "an integral partner in SJ in supporting the community," Reardon said in a written statement"

Yea Right 

 
 
Alison Jackson 
Irving is getting out,lol

They see something the rest of you don't.

 
David R. Amos
Reply to Alison Jackson   
Some of us see more than you  
 
 
David R. Amos
Reply to Alison Jackson 
Arthur Irving is 93 I bet he is beginning to forget a lot of things he should have regretted long ago



  
Bill Graham
The question is why would anyone want to buy out Irving given a hostile federal government to all things oil and gas? 
 
 
David R. Amos
Reply to Bill Graham
The lion's share of Irving Oil's customers are in the USA
 
 

 
Bob Fiset  
Would not be surprised to see Total Energies buy the whole thing. A little wiki background :" TotalEnergies SE is a French multinational integrated energy and petroleum company founded in 1924 and is one of the seven supermajor oil companies. Its businesses cover the entire oil and gas chain, from crude oil and natural gas exploration and production to power generation, transportation, refining, petroleum product marketing, and international crude oil and product trading. TotalEnergies is also a large-scale chemicals manufacturer.

TotalEnergies has its head office in the Tour Total in La Défense district in Courbevoie, west of Paris. In the 2023 Forbes Global 2000, TotalEnergies was ranked as the 21st largest public company in the world.

Why else would someone open a private french school in St-John? Just watch, once the school is up and running, Total Energies will bring famillies that need schooling for their kids.

 
David R. Amos
Reply to Bob Fiset
This was in the news while I was running in Fundy Royal again

Oil-for-Food Appeal Begins in Paris

10/14/2015

The Oil-for-Food appeal is being heard in Paris from October 14 to November 6. Although the charges against Total S.A. were dismissed in the lower court, the company is being retried, along with four former Group employees.

The Oil-for-Food program was introduced in 1996 by the U.N. Security Council to ease the hardship caused by the sanctions imposed against Iraq in 1990. The program allowed Iraq to sell its oil subject to specific terms and conditions, with the proceeds deposited to an escrow account used to purchase food, drugs and staples, under the oversight of the United Nations. The program was suspended following the 2003 invasion of Iraq by the United States and its allies.

Total is being prosecuted for bribing foreign officials, on the grounds that between 2000 and 2002 it made extra payments to Iraq when purchasing oil, bypassing the U.N. escrow account.

Total will show that it legally purchased Iraqi oil in the market, in compliance with the Oil-for-Food Program rules and with all the required authorizations.

 
David R. Amos
Reply toDavid R. Amos
In the wake of the climate crisis, financial institutions such as banks, pension funds and investment management companies have come under fire for financing the world’s largest and most polluting fossil fuel companies. While rarely part of the divestment conversation, insurance companies also play a pivotal role supporting the industry—through both insuring fossil fuel projects and investing their insurance premiums in oil, gas and coal companies. Power Corporation’s fossil fuel influence can also be discerned through its substantial ownership shares in the giant French oil and gas company Total SA. Paul Desmarais Jr., chairman and co-CEO of Power Corporation, was a director of Total SA until 2017.

Along with its significant roster of subsidiary companies, Power Corporation of Canada (Power Corporation) manages one of the largest pools of wealth in the country, with assets totalling over C$445.5 billion.18 Power Corporation’s complex web of subsidiaries includes the insurance, investment services, communications, media, energy, waste and mineral extraction sectors. Through its controlling share of key subsidiary Power Financial, Power Corporation operates two of Canada’s largest non-bank financial services and insurance companies: IGM Financial and Great-West Lifeco.

 
 
 
Jos Allaire   
They were such good corporate citizens paying their just share of taxes and never asking anything in return, good citizens like that is what the good mayor of Saint John means to say.
 
 
David R. Amos
Reply to Jos Allaire 
Surely you jest 
 
 
David R. Amos
Reply to Jos Allaire  
I bet the not so good mayor can't even remember talking to me years ago let alone recalling why I ran in Saint John Habour while intervening in the NEB hearing about the Emera Pipeline Project 
 
 
 
 
 
john mihaljevich  
All I hope for is that no Chinese, Saudi or other foreign interest is allowed to go anywhere near this. Do you hear me Trudeau and other sellers of Canadian resources and industries? Foreign ownership must stop!
 
 
David R. Amos

Reply to john mihaljevich
Do ya think Trudeau The Younger ever followed Harper's orders?

Government OK's foreign bids for Nexen, Progress Energy

Bids by future state-owned enterprises in oilsands to be approved only in exceptional circumstances

Laura Payton · CBC News · Posted: Dec 07, 2012 12:32 PM AST

 
Chris McNee
Reply to john mihaljevich
Judas Trudeau heard you loud and clear :)
 
 
 
 
Matthew Steele 
If Irving bails while Higgs is premier thats a lot of egg on his face. Tarnishing what little legacy he has. I'm all for it. 
 
 
David R. Amos
Reply to Matthew Steele
Higgy needs to review the email I sent him in 2010 when he was just another candidate in the election that summer. It was about what went down between Harper, Brad Wall, China, BHP, Potash Corp and I  
 
 
 
 
Fred Brewer  
This is like trying to sell a horse and buggy business while Detroit was ramping up its automobile manufacturing business. Good luck with the sale.
  
 
Scotty Boy
Reply to Fred Brewer
less than 30% of the World's Energy comes from Renewable resources, your Analogy is quite a piece off ...

partly why people are upset, being Forced into a Technology that does not yet exist and at a significant increase in Cost ...

 
Fred Brewer 
Reply to Scotty Boy
Really? But there was a time when the horse and buggy trade had 70% of the world market and cars only had 30%. Get my point?  
 
 
David R. Amos

Reply to Scotty Boy
Ignore Mr Brewer Methinks the horse and buggy trade is gonna make a comeback.

Perhaps we should quit selling them

A contentious export: The anatomy of Canada's horsemeat industry

From the feedlot to the dinner plate, horses bred for slaughter serve a niche market

Wallis Snowdon · CBC News · Posted: Oct 17, 2023 8:00 AM ADT

 
 
 
 
JOhn D Bond 
 If a buyer does make an offer. Canada should make sure that it is not in any way shape or form associated with a foreign government or perhaps even a sovereign fund managed by a foreign government.

There are plenty of businesses and funds with deep enough pockets that are looking for stable and predictable cash flows for 10-20-30 40 yrs or more as long term investments that could purchase this.

 
Timothy Walton 
Reply to JOhn D Bond
I can't imagine we have a say in it. Deal is probably already done anyway.  
 
  
JOhn D Bond
Reply to Allan Marven
Remember there is this thing call the competition act.   
 
 
David R. Amos

Reply to Allan Marven
Remember when BHP planned a hostile takeover of Potash Corp during the NB election in 2010? Trust that Higgy et al know what I did about it but nothing was revealed

BHP's bid for PotashCorp: how it unfolded

CBC News · Posted: Nov 02, 2010 12:28 PM ADT

 
 
 
Fred Brewer 
Reply to Graham McCormack 
I sure hope you are right Graham, but when the Feds bought Trans Mountain Pipelines I lost all hope that governments are smart, and that includes provincial governments.
 
 
 
 
Eugene Peabody 
It was reported on this past year that refinery margin level had jumped from 11 cents a liter in 2019 to over 40 cents today plus another up to 8 cents recently by the province . That should give any buyer lots of profit to fund the purchase.
 
 
David R. Amos
Reply to Eugene Peabody  
Well put but there the liabilities to be considered
 
 
 
 
Chuck Michaels  
If the government buys it - it is doomed. We have only to look at NB Power to see the curve downward that it would most likely follow after all the "friends" are tagged for plum positions... Perhaps if a certain metal recycling firm in that area were to acquire it... THAT might get interesting!
 
 
David R. Amos
Reply to Chuck Michaels
Dream on
 
 
Chuck Michaels 
Reply to Chuck Michaels 
More of a nightmare scenario for sure... EITHER one... 
 
 
David R. Amos
Reply to Chuck Michaels
Sometimes dreams come true particularly the bad ones
 
 
 
 
SarahRose Werner
Irving's been operating a refinery on that site for almost a century. Who knows what's seeped into the soil over the years? Irving should be required to put a portion of the sale proceeds into a trust fund to pay for the future cost of site remediation once operating an oil refinery there becomes economically unfeasible. Once it's cleaned up, the site can been used for something useful, like homes and/or food production. 

 
Michael Cain
Reply to SarahRose Werner
There are more than 1000 contaminated sites in New Brunswick, most of them from petroleum products. We have no legislation for clean-up nor reclamation of land.
 
 
Dee MacDonald 
Reply to Michael Cain
From any government to date.  
 
 
Ray Smith
Reply to SarahRose Werner
Bye don't let the door hit u on your way out.
 
 
David R. Amos
Reply to Ray Smith  
Oh my
 
 
 
 
Jos Allaire 
I have a horse buggy manufacturing business for sale. Any takers❓
 
 
David R. Amos
Reply to Jos Allaire 
How much? 
 
 
Jos Allaire
Reply to Jos Allaire   
A few 🥜🥜. 
 
 
David R. Amos
Reply to Jos Allaire 
What is that some form of crypto currency?  
 
 
 
 
William Peters  
No one should be allowed to buy it without putting up a 10 billion dollar damage deposit.
 
 
David R. Amos
Reply to William Peters  
Good point
 
 
 
 
Fred Brewer  
 As speculation swirls about a possible sale of Irving Oil, an industry analyst says potential buyers could include another major oil company, some smaller firms, or even a government.

A government? If Higgs buys Irving Oil for the province, would that not be the biggest conflict of interest ever?

 
Timothy Walton 
Reply to Fred Brewer
Biggest so far. 
 
 
Michael Cain
Reply to Fred Brewer
Not a worry, we can't afford it. nt to date.  
 
 
Graham McCormack
Reply to Fred Brewer
Pretty sure they aren't talking about any North American government.
 
 
David R. Amos
Reply to Graham McCormack
Me too
 
 
Fred Brewer 
Reply to Graham McCormack 
I sure hope you are right Graham, but when the Feds bought Trans Mountain Pipelines I lost all hope that governments are smart, and that includes provincial governments.

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