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Quiet removal of proof-of-vaccination rule leaves business groups wondering about options

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---------- Original message ----------
From: "O'Toole, Erin - M.P."<Erin.OToole@parl.gc.ca>
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 20:07:46 +0000
Subject: Automatic reply: YO Madame Lajune shuld say Hoka Hey to your
buddy Agent Margaritaville Everyody knows that I am the guy who gave
him the Factor 8 video and warned him that it would wipe out his
YouTube channel N'esy Pas Mr Traversy???
To: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.com>

On behalf of the Hon. Erin O’Toole, thank you for contacting the
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Au nom de l’hon. Erin O’Toole, merci de communiquer avec le Bureau du
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Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 20:10:58 +0000
Subject: RE: YO Madame Lajune shuld say Hoka Hey to your buddy Agent
Margaritaville Everyody knows that I am the guy who gave him the
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---------- Original message ----------
From: David Amos <david.raymond.amos333@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 16:07:36 -0400
Subject: YO Madame Lajune shuld say Hoka Hey to your buddy Agent
Margaritaville Everyody knows that I am the guy who gave him the
Factor 8 video and warned him that it would wipe out his YouTube
channel N'esy Pas Mr Traversy???
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FYI

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/section-quietly-removed-from-order-1.6310797

Quiet removal of proof-of-vaccination rule leaves business groups
wondering about options


With a section of mandatory order gone, can grocery retailers again
ask for vaccination proof?
Mia Urquhart · CBC News · Posted: Jan 12, 2022 7:00 AM AT


Michael G. L. Geraldson
It was a ridiculous idea that shouldn't even have made it past the
boardroom. And yes, I'm vaccinated.

David Amos
Reply to @Michael G. L. Geraldson: Amen

 

Quiet removal of proof-of-vaccination rule leaves business groups wondering about options

With a section of mandatory order gone, can grocery retailers again ask for vaccination proof?

But after public outcry over the choice — and some misunderstanding that it was only an option and not a requirement — the government did an about-face, and on Dec. 17, the mandatory order included a section that explicitly prohibited stores that sell groceries from asking for proof of vaccination. 

It read: "The option of requiring proof of vaccination instead of requiring distancing is not available in locations at which groceries are retailed." 

That line only lasted for 10 days. By Dec. 27, it quietly disappeared. So what does its absence mean for businesses?

Every weekday since Jan. 3, CBC News has asked government officials to answer that question. The Department of Health passed it along to the Department of Justice, which passed it back to the Department of Health — and still no answer has been provided. 

Most businesses didn't even realize it had been removed. In fact, the CEOs of the chambers of commerce in the province's three largest cities all say they weren't aware of the change until contacted on Monday. 

David Duplisea, CEO of the Saint John Region Chamber of Commerce, said he's not sure what to tell members about the change in the mandatory order. (Submitted by David Duplisea )

The CEO of the Saint John Region Chamber of Commerce said the section "was conspicuous in its absence." David Duplisea wondered if the change was "sneaked through" or whether the government simply forgot to notify the business community. 

Either way, he said, it's important for business owners to know if they have the option — even if it seems as though most aren't interested in it. 

"I've not heard a single retailer or grocery store say we're going to start asking for proof of vaccination," said John Wishart, the CEO of the Chamber of Commerce for Greater Moncton. 

Jim Cormier, the Atlantic director of the Retail Council of Canada, said his members never had any intention of asking customers for proof of vaccination. 

When he heard New Brunswick's announcement in December, he said he made some phone calls to members who sell groceries, "and they all told me the same thing — that regardless of the option that was given to them, they had no intention of putting that into place."

Although the order did not specify what constitutes a grocery retailer, Cormier suspects that the option was likely targeted toward "a smaller business that didn't necessarily have the size or space to constantly distance people." 

He said traditional grocery stores "never had any intention of putting that into place."  

In an emailed response from Sobeys, the company's public affairs lead, Sarah Dawson said, "Grocery retail is an essential service and as such we do not check the vaccination status of our customers."

Boyce market planned to use it

One of the few locations to say they were going to ask for proof of vaccination as a way to avoid reduced capacity was Fredericton's Boyce Farmers Market. At the time, a spokesperson for the market said that because of the constraints of such a small venue, physical distancing was difficult. 

On Dec. 17, the same day the province explicitly stated that the option was not available anymore, the board of directors of the market issued a statement via social media to inform the public that the rules had changed and they had only one option — impose physical distancing. 

"This change will result in a reduced number of patrons inside the Market at any one time and patrons may encounter line ups to enter the building. We will do our best to keep things moving along."

The statement also explained the board's "difficult decision" when faced with the option of full capacity by requiring proof of vaccination. 

Shoppers lined up at the Boyce Famers Market in Fredericton the day after the province changed the rules about asking for proof of vaccination. (Facebook)

"We understood the challenge this represented for some of our patrons and understood it crossed a troubling line in restricting access to our essential food services. However, the alternative was to enforce two-metre distancing and limit patrons in the market to such a degree we feared our already weakened businesses wouldn't have enough patrons buying enough goods to remain viable. It was an extraordinarily difficult decision."

Despite several attempts this week and last, the market declined on Tuesday to make any comment or clarify whether it would like the option of proof of vaccinations reinstated. 

The December flip-flop

On Dec. 3, Health Minister Dorothy Shephard announced that retail outlets, salons and grocery stores could opt to require proof of vaccination from patrons, rather than enforce physical distancing and have to reduce capacity.

The move to include grocery stores, which are considered essential, prompted a wave of questions and criticism, particularly on social media.

Shephard later clarified, saying the intent was to give grocery stores a choice. 

On Dec. 17, the province revised the order to explicitly exclude grocery retailers from the option of asking for proof of vaccination. 

Then, on Dec. 27, all mention of the proof of the vaccination option for grocery retailers was removed. No mention was ever made in government announcements, and business groups were not notified. 

Those groups are now waiting for government officials to tell them what the rules mean for retailers who sell groceries. 

All other retail operations that do not sell groceries can still require proof of vaccination — or reduce capacity and ensure social distancing. The choice is theirs. 

ABOUT THE AUTHOR

Mia Urquhart is a CBC reporter based in Saint John. She can be reached at mia.urquhart@cbc.ca.

CBC's Journalistic Standards and Practices

 

591 Comments
Commenting is now closed for this story.
 
 
Michael G. L. Geraldson
It was a ridiculous idea that shouldn't even have made it past the
boardroom. And yes, I'm vaccinated.
 
 
David Amos  
Reply to @Michael G. L. Geraldson: Amen
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
SarahRose Werner
Where is the evidence that two doses of vaccine make people less likely to become infected with to and to transmit omicron? Without such evidence, so-called vaccine passports offer no protection for patrons or staff. In fact, they have no basis in fact at all.
 
 
JOhn D Bond
Reply to @SarahRose Werner: It is about population level policy to mitigate some of the spread. Soon 2 doses for the passport will change to 3. If that escapes you that is your issue.
 
 
Andre Paquin
Reply to @SarahRose Werner: CBC "evidence? lol
 
 
Lisa Brown
Reply to @JOhn D Bond: She is only pointing out that vaccinations seem to especially with the variants prevent you from getting seriously ill if you catch covid 19 but will not really prevent you from catching it and spreading it. For that, masking and social distancing seem to work much better. And no, I am not an anti vaxxer, I have had two jabs and a booster, but I have also never stopped wearing a mask when shopping etc.
 
 
Andre Paquin
Reply to @JOhn D Bond: They are already on dose #4, and the Government has contrasted a hundred million doses a year for the foreseeable future. So, roll up your sleeve, COVID hysteria booster 9, 10, 11… are already in the pipeline.
 
 
JOhn D Bond
Reply to @Lisa Brown: True but the passports do keep the unvaxxed out of many of the places where people congregate. If they are co mingling, they will have a higher chance of being infected and not be as fortunate with the severity of the virus. The have a much higher chance 5-6 times of having severe symptoms and ending up hospitalized.
 
 
Marc Martin
Reply to @SarahRose Werner: Its on the CDC site.
 
 
Richard Ames 
Reply to @SarahRose Werner: There is little evidence.
Take for example the outbreak in our health system. Over a couple days, we went from 0 to almost 600 people working in the health field isolating. This is a group that we know is 100% "fully vaccinated" (because Higgs purged anyone that wasn't in a hissy fit), and they also have access to much better PPE than the rest of us (N95 masks, medical grade gloves, gowns, etc.).
None of that stopped the spread. At one time, being vaccinated against a disease meant that you WOULD stop the spread. Now it means reduced severity when you get the disease.
Because of this, I am baffled why our governments in Canada are so militant about people getting fully vaccinated. They should be demanding that Health Canada get off their stool and accelerate the approval of the covid treatments that have been developed.
 
 
Wes Gullison
Reply to @JOhn D Bond: so if a person is under 60 and unvax'd, their rate of recovery is 99.7% rather than 99.8%. What a staggering help.
 
 
Dora Carlin
Reply to @SarahRose Werner: You're right Sarah, we're seeing fully vaccinated people ( two doses and a booster ) being admitted to hospital.

Apparently government rules will eliminate the virus
 
 
Michael Cain
Reply to @SarahRose Werner: vaccine passports are a response to the right to know legislation and the requirement of an employer to ensure the health and safety of employees through the best mitigation measures available
 
 
Toby Tolly
Reply to @SarahRose Werner: sometimes I think someone hacks your account
 
 
SarahRose Werner
Reply to @Toby Tolly: Don't expect me to always be on one side or another. Polarized binary thinking is for people who can't handle anything more complex.
 
 
Tom Smith
Reply to @JOhn D Bond: you're right, and I'm 100x more likely to get in a massive car accident when my car is moving vs parked.. Odds of ending up in ICU due to CoVid is a fraction less than 1%. But yes, keep dividing people over 0.005 vs 0.001.
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @SarahRose Werner: My dog knows what BS is Its not rocket science
 
 
Jim LandZ
Reply to @Michael Cain: but the stats are showing opposite of wbat the rules are ment to do, also the shot dont stop the spread because it is not a vaccine but a mrna therapeutic drug. Vaccines stop spread and makes your body devellop immunity for most of your life. Not 4 months per shot. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Jimmy Belafonte
What a farce. Government will be held accountable.
 
 
Richard Taylor
Reply to @Jimmy Belafonte: and when will those who will not get vaccinated be held accountable?
 
 
Michael Milne 
Reply to @William Zabka: Bizzarro, vaxxed persons make up 50% of those hospitalized, Omicron has driven Delta out and has a death rate so low it is hard to pinpoint the number it is so low! But it also provides immunity greater than some of the vaccines.
 
 
Marc Martin
Reply to @Michael Milne: * vaxxed persons make up 50% of those hospitalized * You are not too good at math and statistic are ya ?
 
 
Jan Janson
Reply to @Marc Martin: And half of those were admitted for other reasons and just happened to test positive on arrival. Are they even symptomatic?
 
 
David Amos
Reply to @Jimmy Belafonte: By whom? I believe Dr Who ran off to join Higgy's circus 2 years ago
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Jimmy Belafonte 
More media bs. Inflaming things to get views online. Pathetic.
 
 
David Amos 
Reply to @Jimmy Belafonte: Welcome to the circus
 
 
John Jack
Reply to @David Amos: Welcome to Justin Trudeaus Canada. 
 
 
 
 

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