YO Dominic Cardy how can you Conservatives brag of buying Butter Tarts when CBC tells me you dudes have to sell your HQ? Yet you wackos want control of our provincial economy?
From left, Green Party MLA Kevin Arseneau, party leader David Coon and MLA Megan Mitton, pictured at the New Brunswick legislature, all abstained from voting on the controversial mandatory vaccination bill. (Jacques Poitras/CBC)
Two Green Party MLAs who chose not to vote on a contentious vaccination bill last week are defending the decision to abstain in the face of what one calls "a social media storm."
Kevin Arseneau and Megan Mitton say they've heard the condemnation from across the political spectrum that they should not have sat out the vote.
But they both say they would do it again.
"I've been thinking a lot over the last few days about if there was a better path to take, but I didn't want to align with anti-vaxxers and I still didn't think this was good policy," says Mitton, the MLA for Memramcook-Tantramar.
"So it was 'hold my nose and vote yes for legislation that I didn't think was good?' I don't think we should do that type of thing either. We should go back and make better policy."
Arseneau, the MLA for Kent North, said he hasn't been swayed by the criticism either. "Even with all the reaction and everything … I'd do it again tomorrow in the House," he said.
Both Kevin Arseneau, pictured, and Megan Mitton said they would still abstain if the vote was held again. (Radio-Canada)
The bill was defeated 22-20. If all three Green MLAs had voted yes, it would have passed.
Green Leader David Coon explained his decision last Thursday, but his two colleagues had not spoken publicly about why they didn't vote either way.
'You hid'
Progressive Conservative Education Minister Dominic Cardy slammed the abstentions last week, saying the Green MLAs were afraid of "extremists in your base. … Legislators are elected to legislate. You hid."
Liberal Leader Kevin Vickers called it "a complete abdication of duty by the Green party."
Education Minister Dominic Cardy said the goal of the bill was to immunize enough children to create herd immunity so that the small number of children who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons would still be protected from an outbreak. (Ed Hunter/CBC)
Even retired NDP leader Elizabeth Weir, who rarely comments on current provincial issues, said on Twitter she was "so disappointed" with the Greens. She never abstained during 14 years as an MLA, she added. "I took my lumps."
There was also scathing criticism from the public on social media and in comments on news coverage.
Mitton and Arseneau reject Cardy's accusation they were responding to anti-vaccination sentiment among Green supporters.
"If I wanted to please them, I would not have come out and said we need to be working on a new, better, improved bill," Arseneau said.
The only other MLA who abstained on the vote was PC Agriculture, Aquaculture and Fisheries Minister Ross Wetmore. He refused to discuss his abstention.
"Where the bill has already been decided upon, I have no further comment," he said in an email to CBC News.
The bill would have eliminated religious and philosophical exemptions to the mandatory vaccination policy requirement for school children. Unvaccinated kids without valid medical reasons would not have been allowed to go to school starting in September 2021.
Mitton and Arseneau, both elected for the first time in 2018, say while they supported the idea of the bill, Cardy didn't have complete data on vaccination rates and couldn't demonstrate such a strict measure was needed now.
"There's a bunch of steps that public health experts say should be taken before you get to an extreme measure like excluding children from accessing education," Mitton said.
"I do think that this is a tool that could be in the toolbox to be used in the event that it is needed. The evidence was not provided that it is needed right now."
Herd-immunity threshold
Cardy's numbers showed about one per cent of the school population is not vaccinated. But he said with a three per cent vaccination failure rate, the numbers were getting close to falling below the 95 per cent coverage rate needed for herd immunity.
That refers to enough vaccinations to allow a population to avoid infections and protect those who can't be immunized for legitimate medical reasons.
If the bill had passed, children not vaccinated for any reason other than health concerns would not have been allowed to go to public schools starting in the fall of 2021. (Paul Vernon/The Associated Press)
Cardy predicted that with anti-vaccination sentiment and misinformation spreading, a tougher policy was needed.
Arseneau said if the rate falls under the herd-immunity threshold, "then absolutely that is what should set off mandatory vaccination."
But he said it should be a last resort, because children barred from attending public schools won't benefit from learning about how to understand data and how to use the scientific method.
The Greens tried to amend the bill last week to give the chief medical officer of health the power to declare the bill in effect when the rate fell below the threshold. But the amendment was defeated.
Arseneau said while he had planned to vote for the bill originally, "my abstention was an invitation to continue working on getting our vaccination numbers up [and] making good vaccination policy."
It's not anti-vaxx vs. pro-science, says Mitton
Mitton, who said she and her children are all vaccinated, said many public health officials, including British Columbia's chief medical officer Dr. Bonnie Henry, have suggested stricter mandatory vaccination policies are not the way to go.
"This shouldn't have been anti-science, anti-vaxx versus pro-science, pro-vaccine, but that's the way it's been framed," Mitton said. "So I couldn't support the bill as it stood, but I also didn't want to align myself with anti-vaxxers."
Green MLA Megan Mitton pointed to public health experts who say stricter mandatory vaccination may not be the best policy option for immunizing school children. (CBC)
Both MLAs say they've been criticized by supporters of the bill but also by anti-vaccination activists who wanted them to vote against it.
"It has been a bit of a social media storm," Mitton said.
"Some people said [abstaining] was the easy choice," Arseneau said. "Politically this was the worse position we could have ever took, because it's right in the middle of a polarized debate. You have people who feel so strongly about it and so strongly against it."
Mitton and Arseneau both say once they explain the complexity of the issue to their constituents, they understand better why they abstained.
Reply to @Norman Young: I think the first 4 words are plenty.
Jos Allaire I strongly do believe in science, objective science, that is! But it is hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. And the chaff is the money. It was claimed that there was no problem with agent orange, DDT and glyphosate, to name a few. Oh wait... Now they want to force us to have some stuff injected into our system. Therefore, don't blame some to be overly apprehensive.
Randy McNally The fact that it was a free vote and they all abstained does not bode well for Coon in my opinion. At least one of them should have voted. Or two of them vote to cancel each others vote would have been the best way to go with exaatly the same result as 3 abstentions.
john smith apparently pointing out herd imunity is between 60-80 % not 95 is taboo on this site
Randy McNally
Reply to @john smith: Very Interesting...Anything that goes against "The ministry of truth" usually, as David Amos says...."Goes poof"
Fred Estey
Reply to @Randy McNally: Methinks you're referencing your alter ego. N'esy Pas?
Lou Bell These 3 and Wetmore , as well as Northrup should be ashamed of themselves ! They REALLY , REALLY let those down who could not be vaccinated due to compromised immune systems !! ALL should resign immediately !!!!!!!!!!!
Joey Joncas 3 /45. Kevin Arseneau, party leader David Coon and MLA Megan Mitton
You guy did good.. you didnt have to vote. An you dont need an explanation... Making the vaccination obligatory is against the chart of right and. Liberty...
Everyone who Vote against and these 3. They fight for our rights... thanks
Lou Bell
Reply to @Joey Joncas: They FAILED the people of NB greatly ! Especially those who ARE UNABLE to be vaccinated and whose immune system is compromised ! They chose the anti vaxxers over those who had no choice ! Very shameful decision ! And Arseneau ? It could have been served on a silver platter and approved by all other MLA's and he would have voted no. His SANB roots are there to the core
Randy McNally
Reply to @Lou Bell: I know of people who are immune compromised and were very much against bill 11
Agata Haueisen
Reply to @Lou Bell: do you know how many children in NB are immune compromised and can't be vaccinated or do you like Cardy don't care about data before trying to take people's personal rights away?
Lou Bell
Reply to @Agata Haueisen: I believe I saw a figure of around 1300 children ! And the children of anti vaxxers ? Their rights would be taken away BY THEIR PARENTS , who choose not to follow the rules !
Fred Brewer
Reply to @Randy McNally: Really? And why is that?
Lou Bell
Reply to @Fred Brewer: Randy has no backup ! Social media !
Debbie Vissers
Reply to @Joey Joncas: No they did not fight for our rights. They were cowards.
Fred Brewer
Reply to @Lou Bell: I should have said to Randy, cue the crickets as I don't think he knows a single immune compromised person and if he did, that person was not against bill 11.
Jos Allaire
Reply to @Lou Bell: Do you have a job as you are always harping on here against Francophones. Too much time on your hand.
Education Minister Dominic Cardy said the goal of the bill was to immunize enough children to create herd immunity so that the small number of children who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons would still be protected from an outbreak. (CBC)
Proposed legislation to strengthen mandatory-vaccination rules for schoolchildren in New Brunswick has been defeated in the provincial legislature.
Education Minister Dominic Cardy's bill, to eliminate religious and philosophical exemptions from the requirement for vaccinations, was defeated 22-20 in a free vote among all four parties in the legislature.
The two largest parties split on the issue, with six Progressive Conservative MLAs and 12 Liberals voting against it.
The three People's Alliance MLAs all voted no, while the three Green MLAs abstained.
Whether you like the outcome or don't like the outcome, it is a representation of how true democracy should work.- Kris Austin, People's Alliance leader
"There are people who make decisions based on evidence on both sides of the House," Cardy tweeted after the vote. "And those that don't."
But Alliance Leader Kris Austin said Cardy failed to win over a majority of MLAs because "he brought us incomplete information … to fix a system that nobody says is broken."
He was referring to the fact that data on vaccinations and exemptions from two out of the province's seven school districts still wasn't available as recently as this week, when a committee of MLAs examined the bill.
"Whether you like the outcome or don't like the outcome, it is a representation of how true democracy should work," Austin said of the vote.
Green Party Leader David Coon said he and his two caucus colleagues abstained because, while they support mandatory vaccinations, they think it should be the chief medical officer of health who has the power to eliminate exemptions "based on public health requirements."
Coon tried to amend the bill to that effect Wednesday but his amendment was defeated.
Asked if an eventual COVID-19 vaccine should be mandatory, Coon said, "I'll have to think about that."
Jacques Poitras has been CBC's provincial affairs reporter in New Brunswick since 2000. Raised in Moncton, he also produces the CBC political podcast Spin Reduxit.
286 Comments Commenting is now closed for this story.
David Amos Content disabled Methinks Cardy cannot deny that my relentless reminding of everyone about his fondness for butter tarts caused a few of his buddies to bail out of his punky boat before it sunk N'esy Pas?
Guy Richard
Content disabled Who cares they will get sick, c'est la vie.
David Amos
Content disabled Reply to @Guy Richard: So you say
David Amos
Content disabled
Methinks Cardy did not have enough butters tarts to keep the Green Meanies and a liberal or two on his side N'esy Pas?
michael levesque
Content disabled Reply to @David Amos: hey you should run for the Liberals cause you talk like a Liberal you make no sense at all!!!!
David Amos Content disabled Reply to @michael levesque: Clearly you have no clue as to who I am
David Amos "Cardy said he was disappointed a majority of MLAs "couldn't stand up against the bullying, the harassment, the threats" from anti-vaccination activists."
Yea Right Methinks after he has some more butter tarts I bet that Cardy will dream up some reasons why his buddies did not support his nonsense N'esy Pas?
Jecht Almasy
Reply to @David Amos: Our charter of Rights protect us against governmental bullying.
Esteban Burke
Reply to @Jecht Almasy: that’s why Cardy tried to ram it through with the notwithstanding clause, a sure sign of tyranny
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @David Amos: I *think* it "telling" that 6 Conservatives voted against Mt Cardy's pet project. I'm guessing they can't stand him either?
David Amos
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: When Higgy hired him as his Chief of Staff I swear I giggled for weeks and made Cardy crazy with emails about our past encounters. When they decided to send me Butter Tarts with a signed note I almost died laughing and named the stray cat who ate their treats Mr Higgs It was all incredibly funny as Northrup tried to pretend it never happened when I ran against him later that year.
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @David Amos: Will you be blogging this?
David Amos
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: Already doing so but its private for now because I am far from done
David Amos
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: The truly incredible part is the fact that the anti vaxxers knew everything last year and did nothing with it Go Figure
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @David Amos: Maybe they were trusting anti-Cardy to take over? They appear to be right, the ONLY reason this failed was Mr Cardy, anyone else would have gotten this passed.
David Amos
Content disabled
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: Methinks the anti vaxxers thought had Cardy beat last year so they made fun of me as well but when the narcissistic clown upped the ante with notwithstanding nonsense the worm turned. However once it was removed I truly thought Cardy was gonna pull it off until the leader of the Green Meanies decided have a hissy fit. There was no way to predict that N'esy Pas?
David Amos
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: Trust that I can tell Cardy stories all night long but they would go "Poof"
David Amos
Reply to @David Amos: CBC introduced us
NDP gets help from democracy expert CBC News · Posted: Jan 09, 2006 4:23 PM AT
An international expert on democracy has flown all the way from Egypt to help NDP candidate John Carty campaign in Fredericton.
Dominic Cardy is with a group called The National Democratic Institute. Its members include such people as former U.S. President Jimmy Carter. The group's mission is to teach democratic values and spread democracy around the world.
Cardy has taught about democracy in Algeria, Bangladesh, and Cambodia during the past few years. When he heard his friend John Carty was running for office back in his home town of Fredericton, he hopped on a plane.
"It was a strange experience," Cardy said. "One evening I was watching the sun go down over the pyramids, and the next evening watched it go down over Fredericton airport as I came into land."
Cardy is no relation to the NDP candidate. But he loves elections and loves getting people pumped up about democracy.
Carty the candidate is running against federal Indian Affairs Minister Andy Scott, Conservative Pat Lynch, Green candidate Philip Duchastel and independent David Amos. The riding has sent Scott to Ottawa for the last four elections, despite the best efforts of the other parties.
Cardy says he doesn't care how tough the race his he just wants people to participate in the process. "People have forgotten how incredibly precious these gifts that our ancestors fought for are and were just giving them away. It makes me furious when I talk to people and people just say 'ah there's no point in voting.'"
After election day, Dominic Cardy is flying back home to his wife in Kathmandu, Nepal. He hopes to leave behind a new Member of Parliament for Fredericton, his friend John Carty for the NDP.
val harris The problem was the education minister put this bill forward not the health minister. What’s sad is that Cardy thinks he’s above everyone and really he will be a one term pc MLA.
Lou Bell
Reply to @val harris: Oh , the Liberals are so shallow that they'd sacrifice the health of school kids because of who put the bill forward ! Not for the good it would cause ! Gotcha !!!
David Amos
Reply to @Lou Bell: Methinks you wish to forget how many Conservative voted against your precious bill N'esy Pas?
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @David Amos: And poor Lou is blind to that fact. I'm *thinking* those 6 Conservatives can't stand him either?
Murray Brown
A sad day for science and for the children. For those not vaccinating... Never ever travel with your children to a foreign country where diseases like polio still exist. One swim in the water and they'll be crippled for life.
Reply to @Murray Brown: no the majority will get vaccines
David Amos Reply to @Murray Brown: Methinks is time to take a nap and try to get over your bitterness N'esy Pas?
Reply to @Murray Brown: Look up why they no longer give the polio vaccine.
Reply to @Murray Brown: actually before polio vaccine arrived 99.999% of people were unharmed by polio, CDC vital statistics are online for every year in the 1950s and prior
David Amos
Reply to @Murray Brown: Methinks you and your hero Cardy are not having a good day N'esy Pas?
Lou Bell
Leader of the Greens puts himself ahead of the kids.
David Amos Reply to @Lou Bell: Methinks the boss of the Green Meanies whose name we can't say certainly puts himself ahead of your heroes Cardy and Higgy N'esy Pas?
Lou Bell
Two of the Greens voted against tne Bill because their leader didn't get his amendment added and he had a lip on ! The other just doesn't understand what common sense really means
Terry Tibbs
Content disabled Reply to @Lou Bell: Just can't get it right can you Lou. Give the thing another read, and if there are any words you don't understand you should look them up, and learn something.
David Amos Content disabled Reply to @Terry Tibbs: Lou doesn't read anything
Buddy Best Reply to @Lou Bell: Better to remain silent and be thought a fool then to speak and remove all doubt.
David Amos
Reply to @Lou Bell: Do you?
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @Lou Bell: Try looking up the word "Abstain", and add it to your internal dictionary, then you will have 2 words there and they won't be lonely.
Naomi Forbes
What I still fail to understand is if you are vaccinated then how can you get the disease from an unvaccinated person? It might be a dumb question but does anyone know the answer?
Murray Brown
Reply to @Naomi Forbes: You can't... If you're vaccinated then you don't get the disease that you were vaccinated for... Ever!
Naomi Forbes
Reply to @Murray Brown: .... so why so much animosity shown towards people who aren't vaccinated then if the vaccinated ones are safe forever?
Jeff Leblanc
Reply to @Naomi Forbes: my take is people dont like when a vocal minority thinks they know more than the majority. It comes off as arrogance on their part and they are usually preachy and try and push their beliefs on others. That's why I dont like them. I'm sure others feel the same
Fudder 18 Reply to @Murray Brown: You kind of do, many cases of measles are vaccine derived, and mumps vaccine..fully vaccinated populations, as on ships or university campus, are having outbreaks. Polio, yup, from the vaccine.
James Smythe
Reply to @Naomi Forbes: This is the burning question. If vaccines are such guaranteed protection, why be scared of those who don't have it? By extension, if masks are such great protection, why are they also scared of people who don't wear them? It's the ultimate hypocrisy.
Fred Brewer
Reply to @James Smythe: Your burning question has been answered at least a hundred times on this site. For you to not know the answer by now is what I call "willful blindness". I won't waste my time explaining it to you once again because tomorrow you will just ask the same question again. When I see this tactic, I realize the reason anti-vaxxers us this tactic so often is because that's all they have. Sad. Truly sad.
James Smythe
Reply to @Fred Brewer: I'm not an "anti-vaxxer", I have all mine. Whether or not someone else gets one is therefore of no concern to me since I'm protected.
Brian Cohen
Reply to @Naomi Forbes: the problem is for people who for medical reasons CANNOT be vaccinated. it is for these people that "herd immunity" is required. that there are also a large number of people including children who're not vaccinated only complicates things and is reason for upsurges in preventable illnesses like measles
Pat McGregor
Reply to @Naomi Forbes: Newborns and infants who have not yet been fully vaccinated are typically at greatest risk should an outbreak of disease occur. Prevention of outbreaks reduces infant hospitalizations, complications, and deaths. Vaccines are highly effective in most people, but in a small percentage of people, the vaccine is less effective at eliciting a response that provides good immunity. Those people could potentially be infected and spread disease to a vulnerable person, as can unvaccinated people spread disease. Thus a robust vaccination program provides a better shield for infants, immunocompromised people, and for those who cannot be vaccinated.
For the benefit of CBC and their equally evil cohorts in Viafoura I will disable this comment myself and post it within my blog instead David Amos
Reply to @James Smythe: Methinks mean old people such as Fred don't even understand the term cognitive dissonance They usually just block you if they can' argue you thereby sticking their fat nasty arses in the air while their heads are buried in the bullshit they support N'esy Pas?
James Edward
On a positive political note, this is the first time I can recall such a varied stance on a topic. Look at the politician who voted for what they thought was right. They didn't tow the party line. Real democracy at work. Rare these days.
Randy McNally
Reply to @James Edward: Such is the beauty of a minority government. The people actually have a voice.
David Amos Reply to @Randy McNally: Kinda sorta
Terry Tibbs Reply to @James Edward: I'm *thinking* the result would have been different if this was brought forward by somebody actually likeable?
James Edward
Don't worry bill gates will get us all eventually. New world order here we come!
Naomi Forbes
Reply to @James Edward: ...all I can say about Bill Gates besides his love of money is his very creepy smile.
James Edward
Reply to @Naomi Forbes: Windows is always full of viruses...what make him think he can keep them out of people...
David Amos
Reply to @James Edward: BINGO
Randy McNally Reply to @James Edward: Windows and viruses go hand in hand and it's no mistake. And anti-virus to the rescue!
James Smythe
Let me go make some popcorn quickly while I watch the hypochondriac class absolutely LOSE their minds :D
Lou Bell
Reply to @James Smythe: Says the " Me Party " member ! Leadership Convention for the party Saturday at Timmies . Tony and Dave are on the ticket !
James Smythe
Reply to @Lou Bell: Looney bin Lou Bell strikes again!
David Amos
Reply to @James Smythe: Pass the popcorn
James Smythe Reply to @David Amos: David, you take a lot of flak around here I noticed, but I think you have a great sense of humour, and we'd probably get along well.
David Amos
Reply to @James Smythe: Methinks many of our Forefathers who fought for our rights and freedoms said when the flak was the greatest they knew they were right over the target N'esy Pas?
Joseph Vacher
Content disabled Up Next: NB decides to stop teaching evolution in favor of creationism
David Amos Content disabled Reply to @Joseph Vacher: Bitter?
Michel Pelletier
now if we only had a law to sue somebody because the refuse to be vaccinated, opinion would cetainly change
James Edward
Reply to @Michel Pelletier: no then you'd have civil war
Jesus Murphy
Reply to @Michel Pelletier: ... because more laws will make the world a better place ... and more cops, too, right? Maybe Bill Gates eugenics agenda is not such a bad thing if it only takes out the dummies who willingly line up for his vaccines.
David Amos Reply to @Michel Pelletier: Methinks even Cardy knows that I would sue the dude that would dare to make such a law N'esy Pas?
Esteban Burke
Ding Dong the wicked Bill is dead!
David Amos
Reply to @Esteban Burke: lol
David Amos Reply to @Esteban Burke: However Cardy almost got you and your little dog too
Rob Franklin
It's a real shame. Look at what only ONE virus has done to the world today.
David Amos
Reply to @Rob Franklin: Look again
Rob Franklin
Reply to @David Amos: touche
Esteban Burke
Reply to @Rob Franklin: even worse, look at what the absurd over reaction to one virus has done to the world. All the death stats you see are people dying with cOVID as a co morbidity, that doesn’t mean it caused their death. Median age of death “with” cOVID in BC? 86. 86!!!! An iCFR of 0.26% all ages and we wrecked the economy and saw massive spikes in suicides and domestic violence. Wow, shameful.
Lou Bell
Reply to @Esteban Burke: Where are your sources for " massive spikes in suicides and domestic violnce " ?? I saw an article that indicated domestic violence IS DOWN !!!
Chantal LeBouthi
Reply to @Rob Franklin: still no vaccine for it either
Esteban Burke
Reply to @Lou Bell: weird you ask someone for sources while not providing your own. From MSN: “ “We’ve never seen numbers like this, in such a short period of time,” Dr. Mike deBoisblanc, head of trauma at John Muir Medical Center, told local station ABC7. “I mean, we’ve seen a year’s worth of suicide attempts in the last four weeks.” He added that he thinks “it’s time” to end the state shutdown.”
Article headline so you can search for it as urls likely get blocked here “ ‘A Year’s Worth of Suicide Attempts in the Last Four Weeks’: California Doctor Calls for End to Lockdown”
Joseph Vacher
Reply to @Esteban Burke: thats one guys opinion
Esteban Burke
Reply to @Joseph Vacher: it’s not an opinion, it’s statistics; sorry you can’t recognize the difference.
Opinion: “I think it’s hotter today than it was yesterday”
Fact: “yesterday was 27C and today is 29C therefore it is hotter today”
Joseph Vacher
Reply to @Esteban Burke: Fact: 1 of 2 of us has a mathematics degree, the other doesn't.
Esteban Burke
Reply to @Joseph Vacher: that’s weird, it auto-corrected “fallacious arguments” to “mathematics” in your post.
James Edward
Reply to @Esteban Burke: burn
Randy McNally
Reply to @Rob Franklin: If you've noticed the virus cannot nor should not take all of the credit for the mess the world is in. It's a scapegoat. The US economy was in deep dodo last fall before this all started.
David Amos Reply to @Randy McNally: YUP Methinks everybody knew why all the big corporate dudes were quitting and cashing out long before this virus had a name N'esy Pas?
Fudder 18 Reply to @Chantal LeBouthi: Only about 2% away from natural herd immunity now, but with over 99% recovery rate no vaccine needed. Fauci was worried about reaching herd immunity before the vaccine, he lost. Baylor worked for yrs. on a coronavirus vaccine, animals were getting so ill and dying. No worries, these guys are skipping the animal trials. Twilight Zone.
Michel Pelletier
this is a sad day. If there was a vaccin against cancer heart disease ect so on , everybody would jump at the vaccin.
David Amos Reply to @Michel Pelletier: Don't bet on it
Esteban Burke Reply to @Michel Pelletier: nope
Joseph Vacher Reply to @Michel Pelletier: the smart people would. the rest we can do without
James Edward
Reply to @Michel Pelletier: There already a vaccine for those it's called eating healthy, exercise, laughter, and a loving family. For most people it's lifestyle choices that lead to deceases. And of course there still would be some that would get heart decease and cancer, but not to the level we currently see. Also no money to be made on healthy people.
fred cooper
Reply to @Michel Pelletier: How are you SO SURE that the ingredients in vaccines don't cause cancer? If you look at a the vaccine excipient list you may be surprised...
Buddy Best Reply to @Michel Pelletier: Wrong!!! There will always be those who do not trust government and for good reason. They are not to be trusted!!!! remember 911 and B d S
Jane Sherrard
The unvaccinated children do not deserve to have society believe they are infectious beasts. Most adults aren’t vaccinated and where are all those scary diseases? Ask your government how many of the recent whooping cough and measles cases in NB were vaccinated. If main stream media could get an honest answer, they may begin to see a bigger picture - but it would mean using critical thinking skills. What are the odds of that?
David Amos Reply to @Jane Sherrard: Well put
Michel Pelletier
Reply to @Jane Sherrard: you are ill inform, children who get sick from whooping get it because the vaccin has lost it's potency
Esteban Burke
Reply to @Michel Pelletier: that is wholly incorrect, the vaccine doesn’t prevent infection or transmission, it lessens the severity of the spasms. Whooping cough outbreaks occur regardless of vaccine coverage rates and are cyclical, most cases occur from vaccinated asymptomatic individuals coughing.
Esteban Burke
Reply to @Michel Pelletier: no that’s actually how science says the vaccine works.
Reply to @Jane Sherrard: most adults ARE vaccinated. 91 percent in fact as per HealthCanada.ca. Go look it up if you don't believe me.
fred cooper
Reply to @Jeff LeBlanc: Actually it says only 10% of adults over 18 received a pertussis booster. So no... most adults are not vaccinated.
Jeff LeBlanc
Reply to @fred cooper: keep reading
Jeff LeBlanc
Reply to @fred cooper: the fact I need to point out a booster and vaccination are not one in the same tells me there's no point in trying to explain anything further to you. Good day.
Buddy Best Reply to @Jane Sherrard: Agent orange will not harm you.....right away.
Esteban Burke
Reply to @Jeff LeBlanc: if you’re immune you don’t need a booster therefore with only 6% of adults up to date on their vaccinations, how about going after that ahe group instead of the one with only 1% filing NMEs and that doesn’t even mean it’s against all vaccines. The lack of logic in the Minister’s Bill is astounding.
Randy McNally
Reply to @Jane Sherrard: Yes but you probably should have said "fully vaccinated" And yes many say the measles outbreak in KV last year was from vaccine "shedding" but the ptb will not comment. So only those effected can tell us.
Randy McNally
Reply to @Jeff LeBlanc: Why should she look it up when it's obvious that you did not or you would no that it's not true. It's probably true that the majority of adults probably believe they are fully vaccinated but that's about it.
Dianne MacPherson
SHAME on the Green Party for sitting on the fence !!!
David Amos Reply to @Dianne MacPherson: Welcome back to the circus
Terry Tibbs Reply to @Dianne MacPherson: I *think* democracy was served. They recommended a change, they were refused, they voted accordingly.
David Amos
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: I disagree Methinks I had a lot do with my teasing Cardy and his buddies about them sending me butter tarts before the last election that caused me to run in a provincial election for the first time since 2006. Then the is all the people I was talking to on the phone about butter tarts etc for the past couple of years. Trust that Cardy knows that yesterday his pal Chucky Leblanc and his pals figured out I was a serious as a heart attack about it and even he got upset His videos and their Facebook proved it yesterday but I suspect that everything will soon go "Poof" as usual N'esy Pas?
Justin Gunther Content disabled Can we have the most recent information please? I understand this is a representative democracy and we trust our representatives to make our decisions for us.
But can we have it anyway?
Can we also get some other opinion's on Senior Health Professional Dr. Dominic Cardy's assessment that 95% is required for herd immunity?
David Amos Content disabled Reply to @Justin Gunther: Methinks many would agree that you are flogging a dead horse N'esy Pas?
Justin Gunther
Content disabled Reply to @David Amos: So let it burn, just because?
David Amos Content disabled Reply to @Justin Gunther: Methinks its because even the boss of the Green Meanies would agree that we get the governments we deserve N'esy Pas?
Justin Gunther
Content disabled Reply to @David Amos: What we have is a government that only works properly when its citizens hold it accountable. That's what I've been taught, at least.
But I think I understand where you're coming from.
Lou Bell Content disabled Reply to @David Amos: How's the " Me Party " of 5 doing ? Leadership Convention planned ? Table for 5 at Timmies !!!
David Amos Content disabled Reply to @Lou Bell: I am no party of any politcal party and I don't go to Timmies because the RCMP enjoy harassing folks there
Lou Bell Content disabled Reply to @Lou Bell: The Trump / Pence wannabes ticket - Dave and Tony !
David Amos
Content disabled Reply to @Lou Bell: You and the RCMP know that I don' know your buddy "Tony"
Ed Smith
So the MLAs who voted against this would rather support the parents who want to be able send their unvaccinated kids to school and endanger kids who can't get vaccinated?
Sad day for science. I really thought our MLAs were a bit more intelligent than this. Why are we bothering to waste all this money on universities. Let's just go back to how they did things in the Middle Ages and base policy on the noisy crowd. They'll be after witches next.
David Amos
Reply to @Ed Smith: I am kinda fond of certain witches so trust that i would come to their defence
Esteban Burke Reply to @Ed Smith: science includes mathematics, you have no idea what reasons those 1% of people have for filing NMEs and it could be for a single vaccine. I hope you welcome being judged someday yourself, more and more it’s sadly becoming the Canadian way.
Esteban Burke Reply to @Ed Smith: Middle Ages? Let’s look at CDC data shall we? CDC is Health Canada’s chief research partner by the way and most of the science on our vaccine schedule comes from them.
Deaths per 100,000; measles
1904 - 11.0 1920 - 8.8 1962 - 0.2
A 99%+ reduction in deaths in just 58 years. Vaccine for measles first arrived in? 1963! All that reduction without vaccines. Instead of going back to the Middle Ages, how about we take each VPD and examine whether it follows the pattern seen with measles or not in the 50 years prior to each disease’s vaccine arriving. Or are you scared to see what the science actually says?
Michel Pelletier
Reply to @Esteban Burke: you nailed it
Ed Smith
Reply to @Esteban Burke: Sure. I'll ignore the fact that the World Health Organization, every major medical organization, the health departments of practically every country, province, and state in the world all support immunization of children. And I'll assume that you know better.
Esteban Burke
Reply to @Ed Smith: they don’t support compulsory vaccination without informed consent but if straw man fallacies are all you’ve got...
fred cooper
Reply to @Ed Smith: There has never been a documented case of an unvaccinated child giving a disease (that they don't have) to an immuno-compromised child. There is however, cases of vaccinated children giving other vaccinated children the disease that they are immunized against. There is also a phenomena called vaccine shedding, you should look that up, before you blame the unvaxxed child.
John Grail Reply to @Ed Smith: Saying "science" over and over again proves nothing
Randy McNally
Reply to @Ed Smith: It's a sad day for science when DC is a spokesman for it. And where did you ever get the idea that politicians are intelligent? Ambitious - yes. Attention seekers -check. but intelligent - no more than any other segment of society and in some cases far less.
Dan Boulin
The very last sentence in this article: “Asked if an eventual COVID-19 vaccine should be mandatory, Coon said, "I'll have to think about that." - And what exactly do you need to think about, I ask?
David Amos
Reply to @Dan Boulin: the next election
Dan Boulin
Reply to @David Amos: Precisely
ANNE MILLAR
Where are the rights and freedoms of those people who are unable for medical reasons to be vaccinated? Who will protect them from communicable diseases which are very dangerous for them. And in response to another comment, for those who cannot for medical reasons be vaccinated, yes one person with the disease is scary. Whatever happened to the belief in the greater good for our community.
Justin Gunther
Content disabled Reply to @ANNE MILLAR: Perspective is everything sometimes.
Jan Toffe
Reply to @ANNE MILLAR: Anne You are falling for Minister Cardy's nonsense. Whether a few more kids are vaccinated or not is not going to help those the immuno-compromised. The fact is we will always have flu's, and colds around, that they must avoid. We will always have whooping cough outbreaks because that is a failing vaccine, we will always get small measles outbreaks, these vaccines are not perfect so the immuno-compromised have to be careful anyways or stay home. Raising the vaccination level 2 points will not help them. Anyways most parents against this Bill 11 are not against all vaccines, they just do not want to get them all, there are so many now. Sure get you measles vaccine, but do I really need all these new ones, some of dubious benefit and risk?
David Amos Reply to @Justin Gunther: Methinks your buddy Cardy just learned that the hard way N'esy Pas?
Justin Gunther
Content disabled The vaxxers don't even know why they're mad.
David Amos Content disabled Reply to @Justin Gunther: Methinks you should think again N'esy Pas?
Michael Henheffer So one of the big arguments I have seen for the side against this is that it was the government overstepping its bounds in telling people what to do and taking away freedoms. Can any of them explain to me how this is different than having to have a license to drive or having to have a seatbelt on? To use government funded roads, I have to follow their rules on seatbelts, cars, traffic laws, insurance, etc. How is that not overstepping bounds if this bill was?
Justin Gunther
Content disabled Reply to @Michael Henheffer: It's because enough people are already getting the vaccines to reach herd immunity. Therefore, it's an UNnecessary power grab based on all available information.
Bob Smith
Content disabled Reply to @Michael Henheffer: You can't figure it out? Really? Injection is not learning to drive.
Bob Smith
Reply to @Justin Gunther: If herd immunity already existed, this would have never been brought up. I find your argument about "power grab" lacks any merit and evidence.
Justin Gunther
Content disabled Reply to @Bob Smith: I don't know what to tell you other than research the issue at hand. There are other news stories out there with relevant data. Have a nice day Bob.
Bob Smith
Reply to @Justin Gunther: Other news stories...like links to anti vaccine sites? I know what vaccines protect people against and the horrors the diseases can produce. I don't base my knowledge on invalid claims and histrionics.
Justin Gunther
Content disabled Reply to @Bob Smith: Oh I think there's some on the global platform, definitely others here at the CBC. Probably CTV as well. I don't think I have ever visited an "anti-vaccine" site per se.
Jan Toffe
Reply to @Michael Henheffer: Seat belts and traffic laws are a terrible example. They dont have serious risk like V.
David Amos Reply to @Justin Gunther: I repeat our children are not cattle
Michel Pelletier
Reply to @David Amos: and yet we immunize cattle
David Amos Reply to @Michel Pelletier: Cattle are property People are not
Esteban Burke
Reply to @Michael Henheffer: seat belts cannot cause encephalitis just by virtue of being correctly buckled, vaccines can even when being correctly administered. I’m glad you asked and I hope this clears it up for you.
Esteban Burke
Reply to @Bob Smith: erm, they already admitted herd immunity existed in the hearings, were you not watching? Cardy said this was a preventative measure.
Jesus Murphy
Reply to @Michael Henheffer: ... it isn't different. I am against all that BS ... and so are more and more people everyday. #Voluntaryism
David Amos Reply to @Esteban Burke: Trust that I know far more about encephalitis than you and your hero Cardy do
Matt Smith
Put it to a referendum.
Justin Gunther
Content disabled Reply to @Matt Smith: Why? So the UNinformed public can make the wrong decision? Do you understand the significance of the vote going this way even with the full push of the state broadcaster behind it?
Do you understand how the bill is completely UNnecessary?
David Amos Reply to @Justin Gunther: Do you understand what happened?
Randy McNally
Reply to @Matt Smith: We have a representative parliamentary democracy so why do we need a referendum
Justin Gunther
Content disabled Let's make a deal with the Minister:
You actually teach the kids how to read, and we'll reconsider your bill based on available information the next time this finds its way into the news cycle.
Thank you for doing the minimum.
Bob Smith
Content disabled Reply to @Justin Gunther: I'll make you a deal. When the Covid vaccine comes out for society, I expect you to get your shot as a responsible member of society. If not, stay home and out of society. Thank you for that choice you should make.
Justin Gunther
Content disabled Reply to @Bob Smith: Have a nice day Bob.
David Amos Content disabled Reply to @Bob Smith: Good luck trying to make me take a shot
Justin Gunther Content disabled Regardless of your opinion on vaccines, this bill was an unjustified overreach based on available information.
David Amos Content disabled Reply to @Justin Gunther: You seem confused
Michel Pelletier Content disabled Reply to @David Amos: no you are
David Amos
Content disabled Reply to @Michel Pelletier: Dream on
Phoenix Muranetz
Until there are proper studies done on the safety and effectiveness without interference from said pharmaceutical companies themselves - this Victory is an example of when people continue to stand by the rights of freedom.
Bob Smith
Reply to @Phoenix Muranetz: Remember this when the Covid vaccine comes out. You're free to stay home, out of society...
David Amos
Reply to @Bob Smith: Who are are you to suggest such things?
Randy McNally
Reply to @Bob Smith: Do we really have any reason to believe that there will be a COVID vaccine.
George Smith
CBC you need to read your own News. This story has been decided. When that happens the out of date story shouldn't appear on the same page as the current up to date one that clarifies the situation. Simple to do. Why isn't it done?
David Amos Reply to @George Smith: Go Figure
Rob Mason
Reply to @David Amos: Dennis is that you?
David Amos Reply to @Rob Mason: I am exactly who i say i am More importantly do I know you?
Chris Merriam
The voting public will remember what happened today.....laughing stock of the country.
Justin Gunther
Content disabled Reply to @Chris Merriam: I don't think you actually understand the facts at hand.
David Amos Reply to @Justin Gunther: Do you?
Bonnie Cox
I hope for the sake of the NAY sayers... they are not in my riding... TERRIBLE decision... let US vote on it...
David Amos Reply to @Bonnie Cox: Why?
Justin Gunther
Content disabled I don't understand. Based on prior reporting by our state broadcaster it sounded like a foregone conclusion the vote would go strongly the other way? But thank YOU Minister Cardy for having YOUR voice once again heard on the state broadcaster, acting like everyone who voted nay is your intellectual inferior.
We all appreciate everything YOU'RE doing, since this is apparently YOUR show.
Bonnie Cox
Content disabled Reply to @Justin Gunther: on this topic they ARE his intellectual inferior... damn petri dishes going to school with the children of responsible parents..
Justin Gunther
Content disabled Reply to @Bonnie Cox: I don't think you actually understand the relevant facts. I think you know what Dominic Card has told you. Have a nice day.
David Amos Content disabled Reply to @Bonnie Cox: Wow are you related to Cardy?
Terry Tibbs
Content disabled Reply to @Justin Gunther: He's not acting...he proceeds as if he believes most people are his inferior. And that is why He never wins. And That is what he doesn't get. He never says for example; "I think" or "I believe' or "in my opinion" - He just spouts off as if he knows
Terry Tibbs
Content disabled Reply to @David Amos: Mother/ girlfriend? shrink?
Jeff LeBlanc
Well that's democracy for you.
David Amos Reply to @Jeff LeBlanc: Kinda Sorta
Randy McNally
Reply to @David Amos: Like our silver tongued former pseudo - potus, GW Bush once proclaimed " This sure would be a lot easier if it was a dictatorship" Or something like that
David Amos Reply to @Randy McNally: A far wiser old Yankee PT Barnum used to proclaim "People want to see a circus so you give them a circus"
Methinks Higgy et al trust that I am enjoying playing my part in the ongoing circuses in Fat Fred City and Ottawa since I first ran for a seat in the 38th Parliament N'esy Pas?
David News
Sad day for the health and welfare of the kids. Remember this next time there is a breakout of measles and schools close and the government has to spend $ on health care that would not have been required.
Randy McNally
Reply to @David News: I thought pseudonyms were not allowed here.
Kat Burd
Reply to @Randy McNally: There is an impassible gulf between the rules and the reality here.
Justin Gunther
Content disabled Reply to @Kat Burd: Careful Randy you can get banned for that.
Justin Gunther
Content disabled Reply to @David News: Yes we're all terrified of the one person Measles outbreaks we've seen recently. Absolutely horrifying.
David News
Reply to @Justin Gunther: ah hmmmm
Jan Toffe
Reply to @David News: This is a fantastic day, parents can now decide for themselves how many vaccines their kids need instead of lobbyist controlled governments. There are to many Vacc now. Note that over 40% of our kids now have at least one chronic health condition, how much does dozens of injections have to do with this??
David Amos Reply to @Kat Burd: and that is really your name
David Amos Reply to @Randy McNally: Thats a myth
Brahbra Concord
Reply to @David Amos: Stop trying to find peoples facebook account. It's getting creepy
David Amos Reply to @Brahbra Concord: Methinks I already I told ya that I don't do Facebook However i do recall you suggesting that I find yours because you don't do Twitter like Higgy and I do N'esy Pas?
David News
Reply to @Jan Toffe: Jan, are these the same parents that decided it was not worth the money to get internet installed in their homes so that the kids could participate in the E Learning that was happening through out covid19?
Brahbra Concord
Reply to @David Amos: I never suggested you try to find me online. I have never even said the word twitter on this forum before. I find it unsettling that you think I did. Please stop being so creepy towards me
David Amos Reply to @Brahbra Concord: Methinks everybody knows where to go to verify what you did state N'esy Pas?
Rob Mason
Reply to @Randy McNally: Reply to @David News: I thought pseudonyms were not allowed here. Says the guy using the name of a book of maps!
Jan Toffe
Reply to @Justin Gunther: Horrifying? Why? No one died. But we have 1000's of fentylal overdoses, 2500 car crash deaths a year in Canada. many deaths from snow mobiling, boating, drowning etc. We dont ban cars. Any ways I am not against the measles vaccine, I think we should all get it, but I am very much against Bill 11. It is just the first step to forced vaccination for all including you. They they just keep adding more and more vaccines to the list, there is another 100 in the pipe line right now. When is there too many?
Randy McNally
Reply to @Rob Mason: Alas... I was much too young and to weak to argue thus, it's been my handle since the beginning. Just call me map guy.
Mack Leigh
Wow, looks like David Coon and his MLA's have sitting on the fence down to a science......... Absolutely pathetic.
David Amos
Reply to @Mack Leigh: Naw they were just playing politics for their benefit
Sue Powell Reply to @Mack Leigh:
Sue Powell
Reply to @Sue Powell: what you call science is big pharma sponsored studies to continue making big profits. Do your own research. Independent anti-vaccines studies are never in mainstream media. Ever wondered why? Censorship.
John Grail
Reply to @Mack Leigh: They tried to propose alternative amendments and options. Why vote on a bill that means nothing and would get challenged (and likely lose) as a charter violation
Randy McNally
They may not know it but this is a victory for the people, the constitution, and the charter of rights and freedoms. And this is why minority govt's are good for the people
Bob Smith
Reply to @Randy McNally: ...and if science and common sense had won the vote, you would have argued against minority gov't bills. I know how folks spin things...
Randy McNally
Reply to @Bob Smith: This bill had nothing to do with science
Randy McNally
Reply to @Randy McNally: Where's the double blind studies? Where's the control groups, the placebo groups , the trials? When it comes to Vaccines the public are the guinea pigs
G Rex
Reply to @Randy McNally: I tend to agree with you. Minority rights are a very important part of a "democracy". That being said, I also suspect (hope?) that there will be such a small number who exercise their right to opt out that it will have minimal effect on those who have to opt out for medical reasons. Of course it will have no effect on those who opt for the vaccine.
David Amos Reply to @Randy McNally: I Wholeheartedly Agree Sir
Bob Smith The anti science crowd wins the day :(
Jos Allaire
Reply to @Bob Smith: And the money loses for once.
David Amos
Reply to @Jos Allaire: Mais Oui
Buddy Best
Reply to @Bob Smith: Even in a communist country you have choices. No so much here. Mandatory? Tax on red book value not purchase price!!!!!
Jan Toffe
Reply to @Bob Smith: In your opinion. Now start looking at the science yourself, the truth is somewhere in the middle, as usual.
John Grail Reply to @Bob Smith: The pro-Charter freedoms on the Day.
John Grail
Reply to @John Grail: *won
John Smith Another win for anti-science. So much for my thoughts that the Greens might be better.
Dan Armitage Reply to @John Smith: rights and anti science don't play together. Your more than welcomed to go get a shot but you sure as ???? aren't entitled to tell me what I have to do
David Amos Reply to @Dan Armitage: I agree
Buddy Best
Reply to @John Smith: What next? Mandatory chip inserts? democratic and free? Not here if these laws keep forcing compliance on personal choice. It died this time but what does the future bring?
John Grail Reply to @John Smith: All to authoritarian vaxxers have is ad hominem attacks and poisoning the well.
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val harris
The problem was the education minister put this bill forward not the health minister. What’s sad is that Cardy thinks he’s above everyone and really he will be a one term pc MLA.
Lou Bell
And poor Lou is blind to that fact. I'm *thinking* those 6 Conservatives can't stand him either?
Murray Brown
Reply to @Murray Brown: Methinks is time to take a nap and try to get over your bitterness N'esy Pas?
Reply to @Murray Brown: Look up why they no longer give the polio vaccine.
Lou Bell
Reply to @Lou Bell: Methinks the boss of the Green Meanies whose name we can't say certainly puts himself ahead of your heroes Cardy and Higgy N'esy Pas?
Lou Bell
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @Lou Bell:
Just can't get it right can you Lou.
Give the thing another read, and if there are any words you don't understand you should look them up, and learn something.
Content disabled
Reply to @Terry Tibbs: Lou doesn't read anything
Buddy Best
Reply to @Lou Bell: Better to remain silent and be thought a fool then to speak and remove all doubt.
David Amos
Try looking up the word "Abstain", and add it to your internal dictionary, then you will have 2 words there and they won't be lonely.
Naomi Forbes
Murray Brown
Naomi Forbes
Jeff Leblanc
Fudder 18
Reply to @Murray Brown: You kind of do, many cases of measles are vaccine derived, and mumps vaccine..fully vaccinated populations, as on ships or university campus, are having outbreaks. Polio, yup, from the vaccine.
James Smythe
the problem is for people who for medical reasons CANNOT be vaccinated.
it is for these people that "herd immunity" is required.
that there are also a large number of people including children who're not vaccinated only complicates things and is reason for upsurges in preventable illnesses like measles
Newborns and infants who have not yet been fully vaccinated are typically at greatest risk should an outbreak of disease occur. Prevention of outbreaks reduces infant hospitalizations, complications, and deaths.
Vaccines are highly effective in most people, but in a small percentage of people, the vaccine is less effective at eliciting a response that provides good immunity. Those people could potentially be infected and spread disease to a vulnerable person, as can unvaccinated people spread disease.
Thus a robust vaccination program provides a better shield for infants, immunocompromised people, and for those who cannot be vaccinated.
For the benefit of CBC and their equally evil cohorts in Viafoura I will disable this comment myself and post it within my blog instead
David Amos
James Edward
Randy McNally
Reply to @Randy McNally: Kinda sorta
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @James Edward:
I'm *thinking* the result would have been different if this was brought forward by somebody actually likeable?
James Edward
Naomi Forbes
James Edward
David Amos
Randy McNally
Reply to @James Edward: Windows and viruses go hand in hand and it's no mistake. And anti-virus to the rescue!
James Smythe
Lou Bell
James Smythe
David Amos
James Smythe
Reply to @David Amos: David, you take a lot of flak around here I noticed, but I think you have a great sense of humour, and we'd probably get along well.
David Amos
Joseph Vacher
Up Next: NB decides to stop teaching evolution in favor of creationism
Content disabled
Reply to @Joseph Vacher: Bitter?
Michel Pelletier
James Edward
Jesus Murphy
Reply to @Michel Pelletier: Methinks even Cardy knows that I would sue the dude that would dare to make such a law N'esy Pas?
Esteban Burke
David Amos
David Amos
Reply to @Esteban Burke: However Cardy almost got you and your little dog too
Rob Franklin
David Amos
Rob Franklin
Esteban Burke
Lou Bell
Chantal LeBouthi
Esteban Burke
Article headline so you can search for it as urls likely get blocked here “ ‘A Year’s Worth of Suicide Attempts in the Last Four Weeks’: California Doctor Calls for End to Lockdown”
Joseph Vacher
Esteban Burke
Opinion: “I think it’s hotter today than it was yesterday”
Fact: “yesterday was 27C and today is 29C therefore it is hotter today”
Joseph Vacher
Esteban Burke
James Edward
Randy McNally
Reply to @Randy McNally: YUP Methinks everybody knew why all the big corporate dudes were quitting and cashing out long before this virus had a name N'esy Pas?
Fudder 18
Reply to @Chantal LeBouthi: Only about 2% away from natural herd immunity now, but with over 99% recovery rate no vaccine needed. Fauci was worried about reaching herd immunity before the vaccine, he lost. Baylor worked for yrs. on a coronavirus vaccine, animals were getting so ill and dying. No worries, these guys are skipping the animal trials. Twilight Zone.
Michel Pelletier
Reply to @Michel Pelletier: Don't bet on it
Esteban Burke
Reply to @Michel Pelletier: nope
Reply to @Michel Pelletier: the smart people would. the rest we can do without
James Edward
fred cooper
Buddy Best
Reply to @Michel Pelletier: Wrong!!! There will always be those who do not trust government and for good reason. They are not to be trusted!!!! remember 911 and B d S
Jane Sherrard
Reply to @Jane Sherrard: Well put
Michel Pelletier
Esteban Burke
Esteban Burke
Joseph Vacher
Jeff LeBlanc
fred cooper
Jeff LeBlanc
Jeff LeBlanc
Buddy Best
Reply to @Jane Sherrard: Agent orange will not harm you.....right away.
Esteban Burke
Dianne MacPherson
Reply to @Dianne MacPherson: Welcome back to the circus
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @Dianne MacPherson:
I *think* democracy was served. They recommended a change, they were refused, they voted accordingly.
Content disabled
Can we have the most recent information please? I understand this is a representative democracy and we trust our representatives to make our decisions for us.
But can we have it anyway?
Can we also get some other opinion's on Senior Health Professional Dr. Dominic Cardy's assessment that 95% is required for herd immunity?
Content disabled
Reply to @Justin Gunther: Methinks many would agree that you are flogging a dead horse N'esy Pas?
Justin Gunther
Reply to @David Amos: So let it burn, just because?
Content disabled
Reply to @Justin Gunther: Methinks its because even the boss of the Green Meanies would agree that we get the governments we deserve N'esy Pas?
Justin Gunther
Reply to @David Amos: What we have is a government that only works properly when its citizens hold it accountable. That's what I've been taught, at least.
But I think I understand where you're coming from.
Content disabled
Reply to @David Amos: How's the " Me Party " of 5 doing ? Leadership Convention planned ? Table for 5 at Timmies !!!
Content disabled
Reply to @Lou Bell: I am no party of any politcal party and I don't go to Timmies because the RCMP enjoy harassing folks there
Content disabled
Reply to @Lou Bell: The Trump / Pence wannabes ticket - Dave and Tony !
David Amos
Reply to @Lou Bell: You and the RCMP know that I don' know your buddy "Tony"
Ed Smith
Sad day for science. I really thought our MLAs were a bit more intelligent than this. Why are we bothering to waste all this money on universities. Let's just go back to how they did things in the Middle Ages and base policy on the noisy crowd. They'll be after witches next.
David Amos
Esteban Burke
Reply to @Ed Smith: science includes mathematics, you have no idea what reasons those 1% of people have for filing NMEs and it could be for a single vaccine. I hope you welcome being judged someday yourself, more and more it’s sadly becoming the Canadian way.
Esteban Burke
Reply to @Ed Smith: Middle Ages? Let’s look at CDC data shall we? CDC is Health Canada’s chief research partner by the way and most of the science on our vaccine schedule comes from them.
Deaths per 100,000; measles
1904 - 11.0
1920 - 8.8
1962 - 0.2
A 99%+ reduction in deaths in just 58 years. Vaccine for measles first arrived in? 1963! All that reduction without vaccines. Instead of going back to the Middle Ages, how about we take each VPD and examine whether it follows the pattern seen with measles or not in the 50 years prior to each disease’s vaccine arriving. Or are you scared to see what the science actually says?
Michel Pelletier
Ed Smith
Esteban Burke
fred cooper
John Grail
Reply to @Ed Smith: Saying "science" over and over again proves nothing
Randy McNally
Dan Boulin
“Asked if an eventual COVID-19 vaccine should be mandatory, Coon said, "I'll have to think about that."
- And what exactly do you need to think about, I ask?
David Amos
Dan Boulin
ANNE MILLAR
Justin Gunther
Reply to @ANNE MILLAR: Perspective is everything sometimes.
Jan Toffe
The fact is we will always have flu's, and colds around, that they must avoid. We will always have whooping cough outbreaks because that is a failing vaccine, we will always get small measles outbreaks, these vaccines are not perfect so the immuno-compromised have to be careful anyways or stay home.
Raising the vaccination level 2 points will not help them. Anyways most parents against this Bill 11 are not against all vaccines, they just do not want to get them all, there are so many now. Sure get you measles vaccine, but do I really need all these new ones, some of dubious benefit and risk?
Reply to @Justin Gunther: Methinks your buddy Cardy just learned that the hard way N'esy Pas?
Justin Gunther
The vaxxers don't even know why they're mad.
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Reply to @Justin Gunther: Methinks you should think again N'esy Pas?
Michael Henheffer
So one of the big arguments I have seen for the side against this is that it was the government overstepping its bounds in telling people what to do and taking away freedoms. Can any of them explain to me how this is different than having to have a license to drive or having to have a seatbelt on? To use government funded roads, I have to follow their rules on seatbelts, cars, traffic laws, insurance, etc. How is that not overstepping bounds if this bill was?
Justin Gunther
Reply to @Michael Henheffer: It's because enough people are already getting the vaccines to reach herd immunity. Therefore, it's an UNnecessary power grab based on all available information.
Bob Smith
Reply to @Michael Henheffer: You can't figure it out? Really? Injection is not learning to drive.
Bob Smith
Justin Gunther
Reply to @Bob Smith: I don't know what to tell you other than research the issue at hand. There are other news stories out there with relevant data. Have a nice day Bob.
Bob Smith
Justin Gunther
Reply to @Bob Smith: Oh I think there's some on the global platform, definitely others here at the CBC. Probably CTV as well. I don't think I have ever visited an "anti-vaccine" site per se.
Jan Toffe
Reply to @Justin Gunther: I repeat our children are not cattle
Michel Pelletier
Reply to @Michel Pelletier: Cattle are property People are not
Esteban Burke
Esteban Burke
Jesus Murphy
Reply to @Esteban Burke: Trust that I know far more about encephalitis than you and your hero Cardy do
Matt Smith
Justin Gunther
Reply to @Matt Smith: Why? So the UNinformed public can make the wrong decision? Do you understand the significance of the vote going this way even with the full push of the state broadcaster behind it?
Do you understand how the bill is completely UNnecessary?
Reply to @Justin Gunther: Do you understand what happened?
Randy McNally
Justin Gunther
Let's make a deal with the Minister:
You actually teach the kids how to read, and we'll reconsider your bill based on available information the next time this finds its way into the news cycle.
Thank you for doing the minimum.
Bob Smith
Reply to @Justin Gunther: I'll make you a deal. When the Covid vaccine comes out for society, I expect you to get your shot as a responsible member of society. If not, stay home and out of society. Thank you for that choice you should make.
Justin Gunther
Reply to @Bob Smith: Have a nice day Bob.
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Reply to @Bob Smith: Good luck trying to make me take a shot
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Regardless of your opinion on vaccines, this bill was an unjustified overreach based on available information.
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Reply to @Justin Gunther: You seem confused
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Reply to @David Amos: no you are
David Amos
Reply to @Michel Pelletier: Dream on
Phoenix Muranetz
Bob Smith
David Amos
Randy McNally
George Smith
Reply to @George Smith: Go Figure
Rob Mason
Reply to @Rob Mason: I am exactly who i say i am More importantly do I know you?
Chris Merriam
Justin Gunther
Reply to @Chris Merriam: I don't think you actually understand the facts at hand.
Reply to @Justin Gunther: Do you?
Bonnie Cox
Reply to @Bonnie Cox: Why?
Justin Gunther
I don't understand. Based on prior reporting by our state broadcaster it sounded like a foregone conclusion the vote would go strongly the other way? But thank YOU Minister Cardy for having YOUR voice once again heard on the state broadcaster, acting like everyone who voted nay is your intellectual inferior.
We all appreciate everything YOU'RE doing, since this is apparently YOUR show.
Bonnie Cox
Reply to @Justin Gunther: on this topic they ARE his intellectual inferior... damn petri dishes going to school with the children of responsible parents..
Justin Gunther
Reply to @Bonnie Cox: I don't think you actually understand the relevant facts. I think you know what Dominic Card has told you. Have a nice day.
Content disabled
Reply to @Bonnie Cox: Wow are you related to Cardy?
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @Justin Gunther: He's not acting...he proceeds as if he believes most people are his inferior. And that is why He never wins. And That is what he doesn't get. He never says for example; "I think" or "I believe' or "in my opinion" - He just spouts off as if he knows
Terry Tibbs
Reply to @David Amos: Mother/ girlfriend? shrink?
Jeff LeBlanc
Reply to @Jeff LeBlanc: Kinda Sorta
Randy McNally
Reply to @Randy McNally: A far wiser old Yankee PT Barnum used to proclaim "People want to see a circus so you give them a circus"
Methinks Higgy et al trust that I am enjoying playing my part in the ongoing circuses in Fat Fred City and Ottawa since I first ran for a seat in the 38th Parliament N'esy Pas?
David News
Randy McNally
Kat Burd
Justin Gunther
Reply to @Kat Burd: Careful Randy you can get banned for that.
Justin Gunther
Reply to @David News: Yes we're all terrified of the one person Measles outbreaks we've seen recently. Absolutely horrifying.
David News
Jan Toffe
Reply to @Kat Burd: and that is really your name
Reply to @Randy McNally: Thats a myth
Brahbra Concord
Reply to @Brahbra Concord: Methinks I already I told ya that I don't do Facebook However i do recall you suggesting that I find yours because you don't do Twitter like Higgy and I do N'esy Pas?
David News
Brahbra Concord
Reply to @Brahbra Concord: Methinks everybody knows where to go to verify what you did state N'esy Pas?
Rob Mason
Jan Toffe
Any ways I am not against the measles vaccine, I think we should all get it, but I am very much against Bill 11. It is just the first step to forced vaccination for all including you. They they just keep adding more and more vaccines to the list, there is another 100 in the pipe line right now. When is there too many?
Randy McNally
Mack Leigh
David Amos
Sue Powell
Reply to @Mack Leigh:
Randy McNally
Bob Smith
Randy McNally
Randy McNally
G Rex
Reply to @Randy McNally: I Wholeheartedly Agree Sir
The anti science crowd wins the day :(
Jos Allaire
David Amos
Buddy Best
Jan Toffe
John Grail
Reply to @Bob Smith: The pro-Charter freedoms on the Day.
John Smith
Another win for anti-science. So much for my thoughts that the Greens might be better.
Reply to @John Smith: rights and anti science don't play together. Your more than welcomed to go get a shot but you sure as ???? aren't entitled to tell me what I have to do
Reply to @Dan Armitage: I agree
Buddy Best
John Grail
Reply to @John Smith: All to authoritarian vaxxers have is ad hominem attacks and poisoning the well.
Corrie Weatherfield aka BruceJack Speculator
Randy McNally
Reply to @Randy McNally: Good question