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David Raymond Amos‏ @DavidRayAmos
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Content disabled   
Methinks Higgy et al should not be surprised because I have been complaining about the actions of SNB in writing for 15 years or so N'esy Pas?


https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2020/06/477-million-assessment-difference-in.html



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https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/saint-john-assessment-francophone-community-centre-1.5611766

$47.7 million assessment difference in francophone community centres irks Saint John leaders

Differences in the valuation of the two institutions needs to be explained, says Saint John mayor

Robert Jones· CBC News· Posted: Jun 15, 2020 7:00 AM AT



Centre scolaire Samuel-de-Champlain in Saint John opened in 1985. Service New Brunswick values it for taxes at $22.8 million, less than one-third of the Fredericton centre it was modeled on. (Robert Jones/CBC)

Suspicion in Saint John that Service New Brunswick undervalues properties in the city and causes the municipality to be shortchanged on tax revenue has civic leaders asking for more information about the assessment of the local francophone community centre.

Centre scolaire-communautaire Samuel-de-Champlain on Saint John's north side is the heart of the city's francophone community. The 35-year old building is 58 per cent the size of  Fredericton's Centre communautaire Sainte-Anne, but the $47.7 million difference in how Service New Brunswick values the two for taxes has Saint John municipal leaders wanting more information on the assessments.

"That stopped me dead in my tracks," said Coun. Donna Reardon about differences in the valuation of the two institutions.

"I don't get it."


Fredericton's Centre communautaire Sainte-Anne opened in 1978. It generates $1 million a year in property tax revenue for the city, based on its $70.5 million assessed value. (Ed Hunter/CBC)

Saint John Mayor Don Darling said it would have to be explained to him how an institution in Fredericton less than double the size of a similar one in Saint John could be valued for taxes as being worth triple.

"Shock is what I would say," Darling said in an interview last week.

"I don't think you can hear numbers like that and not have a whole series of followup questions. We need to understand. There needs to be a clear explanation of how these numbers are arrived at."

Samuel-de-Champlain opened in Saint John in 1985, seven years after Sainte-Anne. The two each sit on slightly more than 10 hectares of land in their respective communities and offer education in French to students from kindergarten to Grade 12.

Last year, 727 students were enrolled at the school in Saint John and 1,200 in Fredericton. 


Saint John City Coun. Donna Reardon said doesn't understand why the Saint John and Fredericton centres would be assessed so differently. (Robert Jones/CBC)

Both centres have been renovated and expanded over the years.

In addition to schools, both have daycares, live performance theatres, libraries, community banquet facilities and medical and dental office spaces.

But while Samuel-de-Champlain is assessed for taxes by Service New Brunswick to be worth $22.8 million (including its non-taxable library), Sainte-Anne is valued at $70.5 million, more than three times as much.

The difference was made worse this year when Service New Brunswick boosted Sainte-Anne's assessed value by $1.7 million, nearly 50 times the $35,000 increase the agency assigned to Samuel-de-Champlain.

The province is paying $1.4 million in property tax on the two centres this year, $1 million of that to Fredericton and $400,000 to Saint John because of the uneven valuations.
"It's incredibly significant," Darling said about the lower tax revenue Samuel-de-Champlain generates for Saint John from its cheaper assessment.

"If you're following our budget deliberations, we're talking about do we open up a sports field or not. Can we afford to open up an aquatic centre or not. Do we mow the grass or not. Every $50,000 every $100,000 — that's a lot of programming, that's a lot of community support. So it matters."

Although some of the $47.7 million difference in the assessments between the two centres is related to the fact Sainte-Anne is larger, about $18 million of the gap is caused by Service New Brunswick's judgment that Sainte-Anne, per square foot, is a significantly more valuable building and property

Spread over its entire 296,775-square-foot floor space, Sainte-Anne's assessed value equates to $238 per square foot, well above the $132 per square foot Service New Brunswick applies to Samuel-de-Champlain.


Saint John Mayor Don Darling said he wants to know more about the valuation of Centre scolaire Samuel-de-Champlain because of past experiences with Service New Brunswick assessments. (CBC)

Reardon has a difficult time accepting those numbers .

"That's a head banger for me," she said. "I don't understand that $100 differential a square foot.
"There's a cost to building per square foot. It won't make any difference whether you build it in Fredericton or Saint John or wherever."

In an email, Service New Brunswick said it uses a "cost approach" to evaluate each property that takes into account "a number of factors," including the quality and type of construction, the age and condition and design of the buildings, their location, the size of the land they occupy and any additional improvements.
"The assessment value of École Sainte-Anne is higher than the assessment value per square foot of Samuel-de-Champlain because of a combination of the factors listed above," said the agency in its email.

"The use of the property would also weigh into the overall assessment. For example, if the Samuel-de-Champlain school is not being fully utilized, then we would allow for functional depreciation."

Saint John politicians have had an uneasy relationship with Service New Brunswick over the way it values property in the city since at least 2013, when the agency cut the assessed values of Saint John's two large pulp and paper mills by 40 per cent, citing poor economic conditions for the industry.

The decision cost the city $1.5 million per year in tax revenue.


Service NB cut its valuation of the Canaport LNG plant from $300 million to $98 million just before it became fully taxable by Saint John. The decision cost the city, and saved Irving Oil Ltd., more than $5 million a year. (Canaport LNG)

In 2017, Service New Brunswick used the economic hardship argument again and lowered its valuation of the Canaport LNG property by $202 million on the eve of it becoming fully taxable by the city. That cost Saint John — and saved Irving Oil Ltd. — $5 million per year in property tax

Last year, city politicians questioned why Saint John's new courthouse was assessed to be worth $6 million less than Moncton's new courthouse. The complaint led to Service New Brunswick raising the Saint John building's assessment by $6 million this year but without acknowledging a mistake had been made.

Darling said that is all part of the reason he's interested to know more about the valuation of Centre scolaire-Samuel-de-Champlain. The city's experience has taught it not to automatically trust the numbers are reasonable.

"If we don't have confidence today, how can we get ourselves to a place where we have we have more confidence in the taxation system and assessments?"  said Darling

"It matters. Having fairness in the tax system and having people have confidence in the tax system."









86 Comments




David Amos
Content disabled 
Methinks Higgy et al should not be surprised because I have been complaining about the actions of SNB in writing for 15 years or so N'esy Pas?









David Amos
Content disabled
Methinks the Saint John Mayor Don Darling must recall our encounter in Fat Fred City on the day Higgy et al tabled their budget this year. Even though the budget had a positive spin Darling announced the very next day that he had changed his mind about seeking another term as Mayor However Darling has been stuck with the job because Higgy et al cancelled the municipal elections that were to be held in May. Hence this makes for interesting circus for me to watch N'esy Pas?














Corrie Weatherfield
tax the churches and their properties not the govt built places



























Brian Robertson
Saint John needs to be dragged kicking and screaming into the reality that their fiscal problems are rooted in the labor agreements struck decades ago that created a pension liability that they simply could not afford.
You can only kick the can down the street for so long.


David Amos 





























Lou Bell
Stii looking for the easy , low bearing fruit and it appears to be unwilling to follow the recommedations for getting their Finances in order . Time to take back their City from the Union bosses and realize who you're representing !! The people who put the monies in your coffers , or the people who TAKE the monies from your coffers !!!!


























Johnny Almar
I’m not saying it’s the Irving factor.


David Amos 

























Donald Smith
Saint John is done, Saint John doesn't exit in the big picture. Other Cities and Communities like Moncton do, WHY ? Mr. Doug James does bring up a good point, c`mon people explain and Justify the 3 pay raises of this council and yet us the tax payers should expect cut backs. Move to the South End where you get garbage pickup every week, snow removal first and foremost.


David Amos 
























Murray Brown
Somebody in Saint John needs to make up for the Irving's 'not' paying their fair share of taxes...


Corrie Weatherfield 


























David Peters
Property taxes on gov't owned buildings?






























Terry Tibbs
Might I suggest the hiring of an independent real estate appraiser to add some sort of reality into everyone's BS?


Justin Gunther