https://twitter.com/DavidRayAmos/with_replies
David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
Replying to @DavidRayAmos @alllibertynews and 49 others
Methinks Higgy et al must have read the email I got from the Ontario Libertarian Party perhaps other folks should read it too N'esy Pas?
https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2020/05/province-attempts-to-put-finer-point-on.html
#nbpoli#cdnpoli
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/new-brunswick-border-restrictions-covid-19-1.5556764
· CBC News· Posted: May 06, 2020 7:00 AM AT
Vehicles entering New Brunswick at the Quebec border in Campbellton lined up earlier this year as an officer asked all motorists a series of questions to screen for COVID-19. (Serge Bouchard/Radio-Canada)
With only one new case in the last 17 days, the real danger of a second wave of COVID-19 lies beyond the province's borders.
Nova Scotia has around 330 active cases, Maine around 480 and Quebec more than 25,000. New Brunswick is also still receiving flights from Montreal and Toronto.
The state of emergency declaration bans all "non-essential" travel such as tourism and social visits.
But beyond the emergency declaration's broad strokes, the province still hasn't clarified exactly who's allowed in, who will be turned away and how it intends to make sure people aren't skirting the rules.
"We've had several meetings in the last week about how we can tighten things up, how we can make things very clear and definitive to make sure that our borders are not as porous as they are right now," Jennifer Russell, the chief medical officer of health, said at a news conference Tuesday.
Dr. Jennifer Russell, chief medical officer of health, says the province is considering ways to clarify and entrench the rules about border travel. (Ed Hunter/CBC)
She said whether it's air or land travel, "we're having discussions this week on how to tighten things up even more."
Russell said the Department of Public Safety has collected data on what kind of travel has been accepted and what hasn't, but that data was not available to media Tuesday.
Russell said there has been "very little" travel allowed into the province.
The state of emergency says essential travel includes:
Premier Blaine Higgs said Monday COVID-19 spread by travel is where "our biggest concerns might be."
He said he asked for a detailed breakdown of the reasons travellers are giving for coming across the borders.
"That information is being prepared so we'll be able to make the right judgments on who needs to come in or through New Brunswick and who doesn't," he said.
"We will be strengthening control around our borders as necessary to minimize the risk for citizens of this province."
Spokesperson Geoffrey Downey said peace officers are taking information from everyone entering the province and following up with those told to self-isolate for 14 days.
Entry points to Quebec are in Lac Baker, Edmundston, Restigouche River crossing near Matapedia, Que., and by the J.C. Van Horne Bridge at Campbellton. Entry points to Nova Scotia are in Aulac-Tantramar and Tidnish Bridge. Prince Edward Island entry point is through Confederation Bridge
The province also began stationing officers at the Moncton and Fredericton airports on April 25 when there's an incoming flight.
Russell said these officers will ask people questions about the purpose of their travel and whether they have any COVID-19 symptoms. She said the officers have the power to turn people away if they deem their travel non–essential.
It's not clear if they measure travellers' temperatures.
On Monday, Premier Blaine Higgs said the province is looking at ways to strengthen the provincial borders. (Ed Hunter/CBC)
The emergency declaration doesn't specifically address people who might have a family emergency, people who are driving through the province, or people who have property in New Brunswick.
The declaration also doesn't outline how the province will keep track of people, if at all, to make sure their travel really is essential.
In an email, provincial spokesperson Geoffrey Downey said people driving through the province will be allowed through.
Russell said if the traveller is sharing a house with other people, they must stay in a separate room, and use a separate bathroom if possible, and avoid any contact for that duration.
"It's really better if they don't share or they don't stay in the same room with you. It's better if they have their own bathroom. It's better if you make sure that everything is disinfected," she said.
Some people are exempted from self-isolating. Those workers include:
That will include consistently testing people with mild symptoms and controlling the flow of travellers to avoid a resurgence of cases.
"You need to continue with the hand hygiene, you need to continue with wearing community facial masks, you need to continue the physical distancing," she said.
63 Comments
Louise Landry
They plan to keep the border closed until there is a vaccine? Best case scenario is 2 years, but in reality it may take 10 years for a vaccine or they may never find one. Are we expected to be locked up in NB until we die? You can freely travel trough Italy, but not through Canada? This isn't making sense to me...
David Amos
Methinks Higgy et al must have read the email I got for the Ontario Libertarian Party perhaps other folks should read it too N'esy Pas?
Hello David,
In response to the COVID emergency, provincial and municipal
governments have made several orders that violate the Canadian Charter
of Rights and Freedoms, and the International Covenant on Civil and
Political Rights. It is the Ontario Libertarian Parties position that
all Canadian citizens and permanent residents have the right to travel
and to work during the current COVID crisis and these rights are
guaranteed by existing law. These existing laws need to be enforced
and penalties for violations of the law by government needs to be
increased. As such, we are calling for:
1) the immediate repeal of all government orders that violate the
charter, the UN covenant, and the quarantine act, and
2) The introduction of administrative penalties against politicians
and government employees who enact or enforce any order that violates
the charter or the covenant.
Since 1988, the declaration of an emergency does not authorize any
government to override the charter or the covenant. From the pre-amble
to the Emergencies Act:
"AND WHEREAS the Governor in Council, in taking such special temporary
measures, would be subject to the Canadian Charter of Rights and
Freedoms and the Canadian Bill of Rights and must have regard to the
International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, particularly
with respect to those fundamental rights that are not to be limited or
abridged even in a national emergency;"
David Amos
Reply to @David Amos:
28(d)(i) of the Quarantine Act authorizes the federal government to
detain people travelling to Canada from other countries if they have
reasonable grounds to believe they are sick, or if they refuse to
cooperate. They can order you to get assessed by a medical
professional and place you in quarantine. But they do not have the
authority to quarantine healthy people as they have done by ordering a
14 day manditory quarantine for all people returning from other
countries.
28(1)(d) A quarantine officer may detain any traveller who the
quarantine officer has reasonable grounds to believe has or might have
a communicable disease or is infested with vectors, or has recently
been in close proximity to a person who has or might have a
communicable disease or is infested with vectors, and is capable of
infecting other people;
Section 6(2) of the charter guarantees your right to move and to work
in Canada. The current restrictions on travel to secondary residences,
travel within Canada are a violation of your charter rights as a
Canadian citizen. Ordering the closure of “non-essential businesses”
and the resultant laying off of “non-essential workers” are a
violation of your rights by the government:
(2) Every citizen of Canada and every person who has the status of a
permanent resident of Canada has the right:
1.to move to and take up residence in any province; and
2.to pursue the gaining of a livelihood in any province.
Article 12(1) of the International Covenant on Civil and Political
Rights also guarantees our right to move within Canada and to choose
our own residence. The lockdown and stay at home orders violate your
civil rights and should be repealled immediately.
Billy Joe Mcallister
Isn't it a double standard if some people can travel back and forth to through borders to work but Americans living in Canada cannot make a quick trip to do things such as banking or pick up their mail? Isn't it also a double standard when people can go back and forth across provincial borders to work while others have had to go on employment insurance or the CERB program? But then again this the "new norm" and most things don't make sense anyway.
David Raymond Amos @DavidRayAmos
Replying to @DavidRayAmos @alllibertynews and 49 others
Methinks Higgy et al must have read the email I got from the Ontario Libertarian Party perhaps other folks should read it too N'esy Pas?
https://davidraymondamos3.blogspot.com/2020/05/province-attempts-to-put-finer-point-on.html
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/new-brunswick-border-restrictions-covid-19-1.5556764
Province attempts to put a finer point on rules, 'strengthen' border restrictions
Provincial officials are meeting to clarify rules around interprovincial travel, Dr. Jennifer Russell says
· CBC News· Posted: May 06, 2020 7:00 AM AT
Vehicles entering New Brunswick at the Quebec border in Campbellton lined up earlier this year as an officer asked all motorists a series of questions to screen for COVID-19. (Serge Bouchard/Radio-Canada)
With only one new case in the last 17 days, the real danger of a second wave of COVID-19 lies beyond the province's borders.
Nova Scotia has around 330 active cases, Maine around 480 and Quebec more than 25,000. New Brunswick is also still receiving flights from Montreal and Toronto.
The state of emergency declaration bans all "non-essential" travel such as tourism and social visits.
But beyond the emergency declaration's broad strokes, the province still hasn't clarified exactly who's allowed in, who will be turned away and how it intends to make sure people aren't skirting the rules.
"We've had several meetings in the last week about how we can tighten things up, how we can make things very clear and definitive to make sure that our borders are not as porous as they are right now," Jennifer Russell, the chief medical officer of health, said at a news conference Tuesday.
Dr. Jennifer Russell, chief medical officer of health, says the province is considering ways to clarify and entrench the rules about border travel. (Ed Hunter/CBC)
She said whether it's air or land travel, "we're having discussions this week on how to tighten things up even more."
Russell said the Department of Public Safety has collected data on what kind of travel has been accepted and what hasn't, but that data was not available to media Tuesday.
Russell said there has been "very little" travel allowed into the province.
The state of emergency says essential travel includes:
- People who work or need medical treatment in New Brunswick.
- Commercial vehicle drivers.
- Residents of Campobello Island entering to access essential goods or services.
- Travel to allow children to share their time between parents.New Brunswick residents who have been out of province temporarily.
- Quebec residents who need essential services like prescription medication or groceries that are not available in Quebec, or in Listuguj or Pointe-à-la-Croix.
Premier Blaine Higgs said Monday COVID-19 spread by travel is where "our biggest concerns might be."
He said he asked for a detailed breakdown of the reasons travellers are giving for coming across the borders.
"That information is being prepared so we'll be able to make the right judgments on who needs to come in or through New Brunswick and who doesn't," he said.
"We will be strengthening control around our borders as necessary to minimize the risk for citizens of this province."
Spokesperson Geoffrey Downey said peace officers are taking information from everyone entering the province and following up with those told to self-isolate for 14 days.
Officers at checkpoints
Provincial peace officers are stationed at each of the seven interprovincial land entry points in the province, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, said provincial spokesperson Coreen Enos.Entry points to Quebec are in Lac Baker, Edmundston, Restigouche River crossing near Matapedia, Que., and by the J.C. Van Horne Bridge at Campbellton. Entry points to Nova Scotia are in Aulac-Tantramar and Tidnish Bridge. Prince Edward Island entry point is through Confederation Bridge
The province also began stationing officers at the Moncton and Fredericton airports on April 25 when there's an incoming flight.
Russell said these officers will ask people questions about the purpose of their travel and whether they have any COVID-19 symptoms. She said the officers have the power to turn people away if they deem their travel non–essential.
It's not clear if they measure travellers' temperatures.
On Monday, Premier Blaine Higgs said the province is looking at ways to strengthen the provincial borders. (Ed Hunter/CBC)
The emergency declaration doesn't specifically address people who might have a family emergency, people who are driving through the province, or people who have property in New Brunswick.
The declaration also doesn't outline how the province will keep track of people, if at all, to make sure their travel really is essential.
In an email, provincial spokesperson Geoffrey Downey said people driving through the province will be allowed through.
What people are expected to do once they've arrived
A memo posted on the province's website says people coming from other provinces and internationally must self-isolate for 14 days. This means they can't go grocery shopping or even interact with members of the same household.Russell said if the traveller is sharing a house with other people, they must stay in a separate room, and use a separate bathroom if possible, and avoid any contact for that duration.
"It's really better if they don't share or they don't stay in the same room with you. It's better if they have their own bathroom. It's better if you make sure that everything is disinfected," she said.
Travellers are required by law to self isolate after arriving, and people could be charged or fined if they break that rule.
Some people are exempted from self-isolating. Those workers include:
- Healthy workers in the trade and transportation sector, such as truck drivers and crew on any plane, train or marine vessel crossing the border.
- Healthy Canadian Coast Guard employees returning to New Brunswick from another province.
- Healthy people who must cross the border to go to work, including health care providers and critical infrastructure workers.
- New Brunswick residents who cross the provincial border daily to attend work.
- Workers who need to travel to work in a neighbouring province, who should travel directly to their place of employment and then back to their home in New Brunswick.
That will include consistently testing people with mild symptoms and controlling the flow of travellers to avoid a resurgence of cases.
"You need to continue with the hand hygiene, you need to continue with wearing community facial masks, you need to continue the physical distancing," she said.
With files from Jacques Poitras
63 Comments
Louise Landry
They plan to keep the border closed until there is a vaccine? Best case scenario is 2 years, but in reality it may take 10 years for a vaccine or they may never find one. Are we expected to be locked up in NB until we die? You can freely travel trough Italy, but not through Canada? This isn't making sense to me...
David Amos
Methinks Higgy et al must have read the email I got for the Ontario Libertarian Party perhaps other folks should read it too N'esy Pas?
Hello David,
In response to the COVID emergency, provincial and municipal
governments have made several orders that violate the Canadian Charter
of Rights and Freedoms, and the International Covenant on Civil and
Political Rights. It is the Ontario Libertarian Parties position that
all Canadian citizens and permanent residents have the right to travel
and to work during the current COVID crisis and these rights are
guaranteed by existing law. These existing laws need to be enforced
and penalties for violations of the law by government needs to be
increased. As such, we are calling for:
1) the immediate repeal of all government orders that violate the
charter, the UN covenant, and the quarantine act, and
2) The introduction of administrative penalties against politicians
and government employees who enact or enforce any order that violates
the charter or the covenant.
Since 1988, the declaration of an emergency does not authorize any
government to override the charter or the covenant. From the pre-amble
to the Emergencies Act:
"AND WHEREAS the Governor in Council, in taking such special temporary
measures, would be subject to the Canadian Charter of Rights and
Freedoms and the Canadian Bill of Rights and must have regard to the
International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, particularly
with respect to those fundamental rights that are not to be limited or
abridged even in a national emergency;"
David Amos
Reply to @David Amos:
28(d)(i) of the Quarantine Act authorizes the federal government to
detain people travelling to Canada from other countries if they have
reasonable grounds to believe they are sick, or if they refuse to
cooperate. They can order you to get assessed by a medical
professional and place you in quarantine. But they do not have the
authority to quarantine healthy people as they have done by ordering a
14 day manditory quarantine for all people returning from other
countries.
28(1)(d) A quarantine officer may detain any traveller who the
quarantine officer has reasonable grounds to believe has or might have
a communicable disease or is infested with vectors, or has recently
been in close proximity to a person who has or might have a
communicable disease or is infested with vectors, and is capable of
infecting other people;
Section 6(2) of the charter guarantees your right to move and to work
in Canada. The current restrictions on travel to secondary residences,
travel within Canada are a violation of your charter rights as a
Canadian citizen. Ordering the closure of “non-essential businesses”
and the resultant laying off of “non-essential workers” are a
violation of your rights by the government:
(2) Every citizen of Canada and every person who has the status of a
permanent resident of Canada has the right:
1.to move to and take up residence in any province; and
2.to pursue the gaining of a livelihood in any province.
Article 12(1) of the International Covenant on Civil and Political
Rights also guarantees our right to move within Canada and to choose
our own residence. The lockdown and stay at home orders violate your
civil rights and should be repealled immediately.
David Amos
Reply to @David Amos:
1. Everyone lawfully within the territory of a State shall, within
that territory, have the right to liberty of movement and freedom to
choose his residence.
Some defenders of government COVID overreach claim that the
not-withstanding clause can be invoked and that the lockdown is
justified. Please refer to R v Oakes which sets out the conditions the
government must follow to invoke the not-withstanding clause.
1) the measures adopted must be carefully designed to achieve the
objective in question. They must not be arbitrary, unfair or based on
irrational considerations. In short, they must be rationally connected
to the objective;
2) the means, even if rationally connected to the objective in this
first sense, should impair "as little as possible" the right or
freedom in question;
3) Third, there must be a proportionality between the effects of the
measures which are responsible for limiting the Charter right or
freedom, and the objective which has been identified as of "sufficient
importance".
The quarantining of healthy uninfected people does not prevent the
spread of communicable diseases. It is only reasonable to quarantine
sick people.
1. Everyone lawfully within the territory of a State shall, within
that territory, have the right to liberty of movement and freedom to
choose his residence.
Some defenders of government COVID overreach claim that the
not-withstanding clause can be invoked and that the lockdown is
justified. Please refer to R v Oakes which sets out the conditions the
government must follow to invoke the not-withstanding clause.
1) the measures adopted must be carefully designed to achieve the
objective in question. They must not be arbitrary, unfair or based on
irrational considerations. In short, they must be rationally connected
to the objective;
2) the means, even if rationally connected to the objective in this
first sense, should impair "as little as possible" the right or
freedom in question;
3) Third, there must be a proportionality between the effects of the
measures which are responsible for limiting the Charter right or
freedom, and the objective which has been identified as of "sufficient
importance".
The quarantining of healthy uninfected people does not prevent the
spread of communicable diseases. It is only reasonable to quarantine
sick people.
David Amos
Reply to @David Amos:
The theory of “flattening the curve” is an unproven hypothesis based
on models rather than facts. There are many reasons to doubt the
validity of these models and emerging data is showing that districts
that remained economically open have similar death rates to regions
that banned work and travel. An unproven methodology should never have
been tried on such a large scale.
The government has assumed and is using models that assume that
individuals and companies will not privately and voluntarily choose to
take reasonable actions to prevent the spread of COVID, they went
straight to coercion without even considering voluntary action.
The government has made several irrational, unfair and arbitrary
orders. For example:
1.The closure of public spaces and parks but not Walmart or grocery stores
2.Walking is allowed in public parks but not standing, rollerblading
or bicycling
3.The banning of the use of motor boats as a means of transportation
but not kayaks or canoes
4.People can travel and go grocery shopping in other communities but
cannot access their secondary residences in those same communities
The theory of “flattening the curve” is an unproven hypothesis based
on models rather than facts. There are many reasons to doubt the
validity of these models and emerging data is showing that districts
that remained economically open have similar death rates to regions
that banned work and travel. An unproven methodology should never have
been tried on such a large scale.
The government has assumed and is using models that assume that
individuals and companies will not privately and voluntarily choose to
take reasonable actions to prevent the spread of COVID, they went
straight to coercion without even considering voluntary action.
The government has made several irrational, unfair and arbitrary
orders. For example:
1.The closure of public spaces and parks but not Walmart or grocery stores
2.Walking is allowed in public parks but not standing, rollerblading
or bicycling
3.The banning of the use of motor boats as a means of transportation
but not kayaks or canoes
4.People can travel and go grocery shopping in other communities but
cannot access their secondary residences in those same communities
David Amos
Reply to @David Amos:
The government has not considered the increase in death rates from
heart disease, suicide, and other chronic health conditions caused by
the economic lockdown, which are substantial.
The government initially justified its lockdown by claiming that ICU
capacity would be overwhelmed, however this has not come to pass. Many
hospitals are operating at 50%-70% of capacity at the peak of this
epidemic. Despite this, the government refuses to loosen its
restrictions on our economic freedom.
The Ontario Libertarian Party remains the only political party that
supports your right to live and work while taking voluntary
precautions to protect yourself and others against viral infections.
Please support us so we can continue to grow.
How To Volunteer
If you have an interest to help support libertarianism in Ontario,
help behind the scenes within the party, or just volunteer in your
community, give us an email or call and we will gladly put you in
touch with a regional coordinator near you. Or if you want something
simple anyone can do to help, tell a friend!
Thanks for your continued support!
Click on this link >> Join / Renew: << to view your status and/or
renew your membership.
Ontario Libertarian Party
The government has not considered the increase in death rates from
heart disease, suicide, and other chronic health conditions caused by
the economic lockdown, which are substantial.
The government initially justified its lockdown by claiming that ICU
capacity would be overwhelmed, however this has not come to pass. Many
hospitals are operating at 50%-70% of capacity at the peak of this
epidemic. Despite this, the government refuses to loosen its
restrictions on our economic freedom.
The Ontario Libertarian Party remains the only political party that
supports your right to live and work while taking voluntary
precautions to protect yourself and others against viral infections.
Please support us so we can continue to grow.
How To Volunteer
If you have an interest to help support libertarianism in Ontario,
help behind the scenes within the party, or just volunteer in your
community, give us an email or call and we will gladly put you in
touch with a regional coordinator near you. Or if you want something
simple anyone can do to help, tell a friend!
Thanks for your continued support!
Click on this link >> Join / Renew: << to view your status and/or
renew your membership.
Ontario Libertarian Party
Bo Zam
Reply to @David Amos: David.. no one is listening.
Lou Bell
Reply to @David Amos: Ah the " Wingnut Party " . Perhaps they should sue . Let's see how that works out . I get calls like this all the time . Usually offshore call centers wanting personal info.
David Amos
Reply to @Lou Bell: Methinks Higg's spindoctors make it your business to try to prove on a daily basis every day all day long that folks got the Police State they deserve N'esy Pas?
Billy Joe Mcallister
Isn't it a double standard if some people can travel back and forth to through borders to work but Americans living in Canada cannot make a quick trip to do things such as banking or pick up their mail? Isn't it also a double standard when people can go back and forth across provincial borders to work while others have had to go on employment insurance or the CERB program? But then again this the "new norm" and most things don't make sense anyway.
Billy Joe Mcallister
Reply to @Billy Joe Mcallister: I'm not saying the borders should be opened up at this time, I actually believe should be tightened up as much as possible without interrupting the flow of goods. And couldn't there be "other arrangements" made for those on the Quebec side of the border to come and get their prescriptions refilled in Campbelton ? Say one tested person designated to go back and forth?
Layton Bennett
Reply to @Billy Joe Mcallister: You cannot compare Inter provincial travel with International travel, travel to and from the US to Canada is governed by an agreement with the US.
Billy Joe Mcallister
Reply to @Layton Bennett: Yes, that is correct and I am glad I prompted the response because the provincial government has little to say about the border with the US. If Donald Trump says he wants the border open ...it will be open. All he has to say is okay then, nothing comes in and nothing goes out. Then what happens?
Layton Bennett
Reply to @Billy Joe Mcallister: He already said he wanted open for Easter, Trudeau said no, the border is still closed
Bruce Sanders
Reply to @Billy Joe Mcallister: Then we take a trip down south where at least I can get a haircut.
David Amos
Reply to @Billy Joe Mcallister: Methinks things don't have to make sense in a Police State. Furthermore you will never be permitted to question Higgy's authority particularly in light of the fact that all the political parties are playing along while the economy takes a huge nosedive again N'esy Pas?
David Amos
Reply to @Bruce Sanders: Methinks lots of folks such as I could care less about a haircut but would dearly love to see our kin who are living south of the 49th and elsewhere in Canada N'esy Pas?
I don't have to. If you are capable of reading and understanding what you read, it was just admitted there are no formal guidelines for folks wishing to wander through our province.